Made the tip motion for over and back.

[tjones1]

Here's what I did. I know that this is used whenever the defense tips the ball and it is legal for the team to go back and get the ball. However, last night Team A was in their frontcourt. Team B tips the ball and then it tips off of Team A (hard to tell however) and goes in the backcourt. Team A touches the ball in the backcourt. Tweet. I whistle them for over and back and use the tip signal, point to Team A's player and then signal the direction. I know this might be small. But, should I have not used the tip signal since it is usually used whenever the defense tips the ball? Thanks

T Jones

[rockyroad]

If it helps you communicate to the coaches what happened, then go for it! I've never used that particular mechanic, usually just point at whoever was the last to touch and say "Touched it last"...don't think there's really anything wrong with doing it your way, tho...

[Junker]

There is no tip signal in Fed. mechanics. Your over and back signal followed by the direction the ball will be inbounded to and a point to the spot where the ball is to be inbounded should be all you use "by the book". If the coach is looking at you with that puzzled look or worse, you can use the "tip" signal to indicate to him what happened.

[Adam]

Originally posted by Junker
There is no tip signal in Fed. mechanics. Your over and back signal followed by the direction the ball will be inbounded to and a point to the spot where the ball is to be inbounded should be all you use "by the book". If the coach is looking at you with that puzzled look or worse, you can use the "tip" signal to indicate to him what happened.

I've worked pretty hard to get rid of this mechanic. If there's any question, I'll just point to the player who touched it last.
I still get partners who use it, though.
It's not our responsibility to tell the players who touched it last until the violation has occurred.

[Redhouse]

correct me if I am wrong.

i will on occasion show the tip signal to my partner if the ball is leaving my area and heading to his usually around the division line to let him know that there was a tip and that it would not be over and back. Is what I am doing incorrect or does anyone else communicate this some other way. There are sometimes when the ball is headed for the division line and you aren't sure if it was tipped or not.

[Smitty]

It bugs me when I see officials use the tip signal on a blocked shot. I don't see what purpose it serves and it looks silly to me.

[Hartsy]

Originally posted by Smitty
It bugs me when I see officials use the tip signal on a blocked shot. I don't see what purpose it serves and it looks silly to me.

A few I have worked with use this about 5 or six times a game. I hate it too. Same ones that like to point to the rim and make little circles on a free throw airball. Is that the signal referred to as the toilet brush? Thankfully, that doesn't surface as often as the tip signal.

Hartsy

[rainmaker]

Tangentially, I'll tell you when the tip signal bugs the heck out of me. Errant pass, flying over the heads of several players of both teams, some of whom reach up. Ball goes oob on my line, I whistle, stop the clock, and look at partner. He gives the tip. Okay, great, who tipped? Who gets the ball? What the heck are we talking about here?

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

We are officiating basketball not baseball or softball. That means we do not have foul tips in basketball.

MTD, Sr.

[Mark Dexter]

I'm okay with using it after a legal backcourt recovery (no, coach, your team tipped the ball - no violation), but my pet peeve is when the ball is bouncing around in the BC, and the official gives the tip signal. The players should be smart enough to be aware of what just happened, or should have to take the chance of getting a violation. (You didn't see a tip/no-tip signal on the fumbled punt in the Orange Bowl, did you?)

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
I'm okay with using it after a legal backcourt recovery (no, coach, your team tipped the ball - no violation), but my pet peeve is when the ball is bouncing around in the BC, and the official gives the tip signal. The players should be smart enough to be aware of what just happened, or should have to take the chance of getting a violation. (You didn't see a tip/no-tip signal on the fumbled punt in the Orange Bowl, did you?)

Good point.

If you're going to use the tip signal* to clarify an over&back violation do wait until someone touches the ball in the backcourt.


* Dear MTD, it's not a foul tip signal - while basketball does have fouls it does not have foul tips. This is something 99.9938572% of the population understand so there's generally no confusion. Similarly, when I put up 1 finger to designate the number of FTs very very few people think I'm saying there is 1 out.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Everybody is missing the point in this discussion. The are no foul tips in basketball; we are not officiating a baseball or softball game. It has been my observation that while the official is giving the foul tip signal something else happens and he is too busy giving the foul tip signal to the signal the real infraction.

One of my basketballmentors, who is now in the OhioHSAA Officials Hall of Fame, always taught that you have nothing until you have something. An official does not have to do anything until an infraction of the rules occurs, then he has something to do.

MTD, Sr.

[williebfree]

Originally posted by Junker
There is no tip signal in Fed. mechanics. Your over and back signal followed by the direction the ball will be inbounded to and a point to the spot where the ball is to be inbounded should be all you use "by the book". If the coach is looking at you with that puzzled look or worse, you can use the "tip" signal to indicate to him what happened.

I agree with this approach, because the official has followed the proper mechanics and then used additional communication "Tip signal" to clarify the call.

The BIG issue with the "tip signal" is its overuse and misappropriate use. I have had a "partner", who is primarily a baseball umpire, use the "Tip signal" on an attempted shot block in MY primary area as I was whistling a foul on the shot.

We have a number of BB officials who also work baseball and do a great job in both. Unfortunately, a small sector of them carry-over baseball mechanics.

As implied, there are obviously more issues than just the use of "tip signals" with this official who has crossed-over from baseball without investing the same energy in building his rules knowledge and understanding the idiosyncrasies of basketball officiating. His umpiring skills are top-notch (from what I can judge, I do not umpire baseball); he has worked many play-offs and a couple of state championships in both baseball and softball, but as noted he is not at the same level in BB. (Smacks of a similar thread, doesn't it .)

I have had friendly discussions with him about this behavior and he acknowledges he should change, but I still see it happening.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.
Everybody is missing the point in this discussion. The are no foul tips in basketball; we are not officiating a baseball or softball game.

We know that already Mark. That's why we wear sneakers and striped shirts instead of cleats and powder blue shirts. [/quote] It has been my observation that while the official is giving the foul tip signal something else happens and he is too busy giving the foul tip signal to the signal the real infraction.[/QUOTE]

Where I come from referees are generaly bright enough to do 2 simple things at once, like watch for goaltending while looking for rebounding fouls, telling the coach he's wrong while maintaining a 10 second backcourt count, glancing at the shot clock while observing the players after a whistle, and even some complex things at once like giving the tip signal while continuing to referee and even chewing gum while walking.