Start/Stop Clock Signals

[Hartsy]

This runs right alongside a thread below but felt it worthy on its own merit. When signaling a violation, OOB, in particular, many officials do not use the Stop Clock signal (raised open hand). They just point the direction. Do any timers really watch for the signal anyhow? Surely they stop the clock on the whistle. They cant be looking at the referee's all game long, and can't see both of them at the same time anyhow.

Same goes for the Start Clock signal (chopping the clock). My guess is they don't even pay attention to this. At the end of a quarter, half, or game I would suggest a reminder to the timer where to look for these signals. I can't really see where this would be an issue any other time.

I see the value of these signals more for our partners than for the timing of the game. Necessary on double whistles where one may have a violation and the other a foul, but not of much value any other time.

One more observation, if signaling to stop clock was so important, wouldn't we need the open hand (stop clock)before a held ball signal and most foul signals?

Hartsy

[Ref Daddy]

I agree that I feel most times I'm raising and chopping the table is not aware.

I held your same fundemental question UNTIL I was involved in my first incredibly loud game situation.

In short - they could not HEAR a the whistle because of crowd noise.

It is a mechanic that has a purpose and sometimes becomes critically important.

[JB]

I like the stop clock signal because it gives you a moment to process what just happened. It also gives you time to make eye contact with the C to let him know you have no idea who the ball went off of.

[Kelvin green]

The stop clock with open hand signal is antiquated and no one has rid us of it. The NBA eliminated it years ago and noone has missed it.

Timers do not watch the hand go up. Timers do watch the chop in for time. If it is a close game with potential to have some funky play (long throws etc) I will instruct the timer to start it on me or partner whoever is in position.

As far as processing time. It's the slow whistle that gets better processing time. Once the hand goes up if you take too long to point you are no better off. and look more indecisive than a slow whistle.

In a game where I have no clue who it went off of, I blow whistle and immediately turn to partner for help.


I have been in loud gyms, timers rarely have problems with the FOX 40's. Even before precision timing there have been so few problems in noisy arenas (Delta Center, United Center, Staples Center, its not enough to worry about.

[zebraman]

A raised fist is also a "stop clock" signal so we actually do signal the timer to stop the clock on all fouls. Perhaps the reason it isn't required on jump balls is because we are raising both hands already which is easy for the timer to see. ??

Anyway, you can't go wrong using NFHS mechanics in a high school game and using NCAA mechanics in a college game.

I like the raised hand prior to the violation for the same reason as JB said. It gives you a couple extra microseconds to process information and it prevents you from giving a signal too quick in case you have a double whistle with a partner.

Z

[Grail]

Best reason for the signal is to let others know if it's a foul or a violation. Based on listening to the coaches yammer, they know the difference between the 2 (or at least some do), and it occasionally keeps some of the comments in check.

[TimTaylor]

I also use the NFHS mechanics - can't go wrong doing so. However, when I meet with the table crew before the game, I tell them to stop the clock on any whistle. With the size of the players these days, it's often hard for them to see a signal given by the lead on the far side, but I guarantee that when Mr. Fox sings, they will hear it.

IMHO, the hand signal is primarily for the coaches' and players benefit - open hand it's a violation, closed hand it's a foul.

[Forksref]

The raised hand for the held ball is the proper technique to stop the clock. The reason to not immediately signal a held ball is if your partner has a foul or some other violation. I have a tough time breaking myself of the habit of using the 2 thumbs up first.

[Mark Dexter]

While on the clock, I've had a few occasions where I've gone based on the hand because the whistle cannot be heard. Of course, for this to work, you need a timer who is paying attention () and knows that a violation/foul is about to occur or has occurred, and realizes the clock hasn't stopped yet.

Most of the time, though, I go off of the whistle.

[BktBallRef]

Raising the hand to stop the clock is not so much for the timer as it is for the coach, players and your partners. And I agree that it gives you an opprtunity to "think."

Chopping the clock should be done and the timer should be watching you. How many times do you see a defender slightly deflect the ball as the thrower passes it? I see it at least once or twice a game. In the final seconds, that can be crucial. A timer on the far side of the clock is NOT going to see that.

It is not required or necessary to raise the hand before signalling a held ball.

[WinterWillie]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Raising the hand to stop the clock is not so much for the timer as it is for the coach, players and your partners. And I agree that it gives you an opprtunity to "think."

In the "good old days", when we were reporting a foul, we were taught to first stop the clock with an open hand, then change the open hand to a fist.

[jritchie]

raised hand has been put back in for college level..although most are still not doing it, i'm pretty sure they are supposed to be!! i think it is just a COSMETIC THING for the assignors though, i guess guys were getting to cute with there performances..haha....it is an important signal for the time keepers, they need to be instructed/reminded before the games that they need to start on the chop and nothing else....less problems that way

as far as the held ball, No open hand first, just straight up with both thumbs, is i believe to allow the refs to run in as they are doing it and get in a little quicker to break the players up possibly fighting over the ball on the floor... i think they said every second counts when they are in a situation like that....so in the time it takes to raise the one arm and look around for a second, then call held ball, we could of had 2 or 3 elbows thrown or whatever else can happen in a pile like that... it's just to allow us to get in there quicker.... or that is what i have heard from some of the head clinicians!!!! what do you think??

[Edited by jritchie on Jan 7th, 2005 at 02:00 PM]

[thumpferee]

Originally posted by jritchie

as far as the held ball, No open hand first, just straight up with both thumbs, is i believe to allow the refs to run in as they are doing it and get in a little quicker to break the players up possibly fighting over the ball on the floor... i think they said every second counts when they are in a situation like that....so in the time it takes to raise the one arm and look around for a second, then call held ball, we could of had 2 or 3 elbows thrown or whatever else can happen in a pile like that... it's just to allow us to get in there quicker.... or that is what i have heard from some of the head clinicians!!!! what do you think??

[Edited by jritchie on Jan 7th, 2005 at 02:00 PM] [/B]

Thumbs up with hard whistle, or two or three, will never change IMO.

[Rich]

Originally posted by Kelvin green
The stop clock with open hand signal is antiquated and no one has rid us of it. The NBA eliminated it years ago and noone has missed it.

Amen. It's a worthless mechanic.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by jritchie
it is an important signal for the time keepers, they need to be instructed/reminded before the games that they need to start on the chop and nothing else....less problems that way

Except on the jump ball to start the game/OT - I rarely see an official who correctly starts the clock in these situations (and I'm including D-I refs in this).