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Not coming back to basketball next year. I call baseball and football and I am not having anywheres near the fun I do with the other 2 sports.
Alot of it has to do with the politics in the association. It is not how well you call it is how well you know the assignor. Training is a joke. Don't even think about getting on court evaluations unless it is from your partner and I have found a number of them don't have a clue (had one guy call traveling when players did a jump stop). Also to get even a low level varsity game they want years of experience (like about 4 or 5) I have called multiple varsity games in football since my rookie year and I called state playoffs in baseball in my 3rd year of calling varisty ball. Those 2 games are more difficult to call than basketball never mind the fact that the rules are more complex in football and baseball than they are in basketball. Also I get the feeling that they frown on calling for both assignors as well the assignors put you lower on their lists if you do not attend their summer basketball camps. I personally am in the middle of baseball season to attend with one and would rather make money on a diamond than to spend money to be on a basketball court. What do you all think? Am I rushing judgement after 1 and a half years? I am not claiming to be this awesome official that deserves top level games (honestly could not tell you if I really can call or not other than based on how "quiet" games go) but it would be nice to feel like I am going somewhere based on my ablility and not popularity. |
First my advice. As you know there is some politics in everything in life. Some places and organizations have more than others. Don't quit because of the politics. If you really aren't having fun and making friends, then those are reasons to go do something else with your time.
Now, that being said, I can certainly relate to your situation. I moved from DC to NV three years ago. I quickly found that the seniority system was king in the basketball association and it was very political, whereas the soccer association did assessments and rewarded fitness and merit. I used to have a very good schedule back east where there was excellent basketball. Out here the basketball isn't very good and frankly the officiating reflects that. I was given all jv and freshmen games my first season here. The assignor did not want a letter from my former association, nor did he bother to come watch me. Part of the problem was that he worked games himself, while I was used to the non-working commish in DC, who had the time to see and evaluate his officials. I became quite frustrated with having to work my way up again and "paying my dues" since I was already an experienced official. I almost quit after last season, when I wasn't selected for the postseason. However, we had a seachange in the organization and the old assignor was out. I had a talk with a board member, who assured me that things would be very different. They are. We've put in a rating system and officials are evaluated in writing. My personal rating went way up, and I've worked a number of the top games, including tonight's league opener. I'm glad that I came back. (And I'm still happy to do a jv or freshmen game, which I will do Friday. :)) Conversely, during the same three year period that I was having no luck making headway with basketball, I worked varsity my first season in soccer, did regionals my second year, and had both the 4A boys regional and state finals this season. Maybe basketball associations are just more difficult that way. You have been recognized by the football and baseball guys, perhaps basketball will turn around for you the way it did for me. Give it some thought, before you decide to hang it up. Whatever happens, best wishes. |
Stick with it! The officiating community needs people like you! With that said, if you aren't having fun, then there's no need to do it. No fun, means it's an extra job! Either way, good luck and I hope you stick with it! Take care.
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I haven't done a football or baseball game but I can't imagine a sport where you can take time to think and then pick the flag up after the fact being harder than basketball. Being out in the elements is a whole different thing.
Nevada's description of Nevada's (the state) politics is pretty accurate. When I first went to Nevada (the state) I felt the same way but I had two issues - I wasn't really ready for varsity and we used 2-man crews. By the time we went to 3-man I was ready for the games the politics and everything else. I can use Nevada (the person) as an example because I know him. I know for a fact that his situation would be like it is now because of the guys he associates with. That is not so say they are PC, that is to say they all want to get better and Nevada is known as the "rules guy" which isn't a bad thing either. I'm in the military so change of location is inevitable and my situation is the opposite of Nevada's. I went from doing the state final (some guy we know as Nevada was on the clock messing up :D) to being in the DC area just trying to do a game. I would like to think I'm almost where I should be based on the current situation but I don't take anything for granted and continue to work hard. My advice would be to take your time with Basketball and make sure you are ready or working towards the next level despite all the politics. If someone is ahead of you based only on politics they might have a short stay at their current level. I cannot stress enough, work on you skills first and foremost. If you have a passion and/or love for the game of basketball stay with it. Although I'm tired as heck right now I can't imagine this time of year without being on the court. |
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Sigh. Ok, look. Maybe there's a legitimate reason you're not getting some higher level games. I waited 6 years for my first varsity games. Maybe basketball isn't really as easy to call as you think it is. Maybe you're being evaluated and you don't know it. Maybe people have heard you complaining and decided that you're not a "team player". Maybe there really are that many officials available that are better than you are right now. I can't tell you why you're not getting the games you'd like. But I can tell you that after a year and a half, you have no business complaining about not having a varsity (or even a high JV) schedule. And I'm not saying this b/c I'm an assignor and I get pissed at anybody who complains about their schedule. I have had my share of frustration along my way -- just like 99% of all basketball officials. All you -- or I -- can do is work the games you get and hope somebody notices. If you think you have the potential, then go to one of those summer camps. What can it hurt? It will put you in front of people who can give you better games. At the very least, it will show you what you need to work on before you're ready for those better games. |
I have never officiated any sport other than basketball, but I have heard from many people who have that basketball is by far the most difficult sport to officiate, due to the speed of the game and the number of rules involved. Having officiated basketball for over 12 years, I can safely say that it does take years for anyone to be good enough to be able to work higher level games. There's just too much to know and develop in order to be on top of your game from every perspective. From a solid knowledge of the rules to strong mechanics to dealing with the personalities involved. I have been a member of 5 different associations in 4 states. Every time I moved I had to start over as a rookie - never made it to varsity level until my current association. Some have been good associations, some bad. They have all been political as far as how you move up the ladder. The best association I've been a member of, by far, is the one I'm in now (Portland, Oregon). My assignor trusted my experience and watched me at least 5 times last season, my first in this association. He moved me up to varsity level for this season. So now I get another ladder to climb, as I only get small school varsity girl's games and mostly JV games. It's all good with me.
I know a lot of people get involved with high school officiating with the goal of moving up to the elite levels, maybe move to college ball, and some probably have dreams of making it to the NBA. Not me. I do this because I love the game and want to be a part of it. I'm not interested in college officiating, and honestly I couldn't care less about working the state tournament. I always try to get better and if I make it higher up the ladder, that will be a bonus. But that's just me. I've worked with plenty of guys who seem to do it because they need the money. I've worked with plenty of guys who simply are too old or out of shape and should hang it up, but for some reason they don't. I don't get that. I hope I have the sense to stop when it isn't fun anymore (I did that once - took 5 years off because I was burned out and wasn't having fun) or if I can't keep up. And I would ask you, beg you even, to quit if it isn't fun for you. |
It sounds to me like you want it all too fast. I realize you have worked very well in the other sports, but that does not mean it translates well to basketball. I do not know any of the situations you have to deal with there, but getting a state final in baseball in my 3rd year would not happen here at all. And I know many officials that started working football for years before they got into football, and I have found that it took them some time to make that transition. Even some of the very successful football officials I know were not very good. This might not be you at all, but basketball takes a tremendous amount of commitment to get good at it. Maybe if you want to excel, you need to give up working a baseball game or two to go to a camp. Attending camps show commitment and help you learn things you would not learn during the season.
The bottom line is there is no right or wrong answer to this. I do not know the politics in your area at all. But you say you do not attend camps to get seen because you are working baseball. You either need to learn to get a good balance between the sports if you want to excel at all of them equally. Or you need to realize what the situation is and move on if you are unwilling to commit the time to this sport. I work 3 sports and not all of them have the same priority in my life. And maybe you are thinking because you have success in one, the others will work out. I know that is not the case for me. Peace |
I know how frustrating it is to think your ready for the better games early on in your career. I had thought I was ready after about 2 years and then finally got a varsity game and realized that I may not be as ready as I thought. Now I have moved to a new state and am having to go through the same process again. Just work hard on getting better is the only advice I can give. I have been lucky so far in my new association because I have worked under level games with some state finals officials and have been lucky enough to get evaluated by other tournament officials. If you are ready you will get noticed and start to get the games you want.
Now I have an issue with your comment about Football and Baseball. I can't really comment on Football but how hard can it be with 5 officials on one game and being able to discuss the call and pick up the flag if it was wrong. Baseball is only difficult to call ball and strikes. I guess it can be warm which might be difficult with the plate equipment on but still is nowhere near as difficult as basketball. Reason I think this is that in basketball you are running along with the play. Causing official to tire quicker than other sports. Also if you make a call you are stopping the game to either call a foul or violation. If you are wrong about the call you have just interupted the game and it is not easy to just start from where the play was interupted. Meaning that if you make a call you better stick with it, right or wrong. Makes the pressure a little bit higher to be right. Just my thoughts on the two topics. |
You've reffed for a year-and-a-half and the reason you aren't getting any varsity games yet is because of politics? Sigh. Yes, I think you should quit.... just think of how disgruntled you will be next year at this time when you still aren't getting any varsity games.
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What is that suppose to me?
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Peace |
You're disgruntled with basketball after only 1.5 years. How then, are you still a Cowboys fan?
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Re: What is that suppose to me?
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Smitty,
I see what you are saying. I just hear people say what you said in this post all the time and it just made me think to finally ask someone what they meant. I work college ball and it is not uncommon for me to be in the car much longer than the game will take. I would not do that if I did not love it. Or I might spend more money on camps that I make during a good portion of the season. To me you have to love the game a hell of a lot to even try those things. If I did not, I would stay less that 5 miles from my house and work rec. leagues all the time. I would still be around the game and probably would make more money than I do now (after all expenses). Peace |
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You also have to look at it from an Assignors perspective. He has a pool of officials who he knows are reliable and competent. Not that you don't have these qualities but you are the wild card in this equation. Assigning is a tough job and really why should he take a chance on you? Again I'm not putting you down but that's the reality. To get games that you want: 1. Don't complain about your schedule be happy that you have games. 2. Get officials who work for the assignor to watch you and ask them to recommend you. 3. Go to camps during the summer. Normally they will give you a written evaluation. Send the evaluation to the assignor. 4. Try to get the assignor to watch you. If he's working games try to get a prelim. game in front of his and ask him to come early. 5. Ask the AD or varsity coach to watch you and recommend you to the assignor. Finally, If you like officiating basketball it really shouldn't matter what level you are working. Junior High, Freshman and JV need good officials. It is at these levels where all the strange and goofy plays occurr. This is where you learn how to officiate. Good luck and hang in there. G |
Well, there have been a lot of great comments to this thread so far and I can agree with points made in all of them.
I just wanted to point out that the criteria used in evaluating an official does not lean heavily towards the number of years of experience. An official is evaluated for many things in determining an assessment of their skills:
Also, don't be so quick to blow off going to camp even if it conflicts with your other money making schedule. Your assignors use the camps as a major tool in determining your skills, noting your personality and professionalism, and seeing how you operate. Granted, your loyalty may be tested but it seems a small price to pay if it results in a full schedule at the levels you desire. Politics, schmolitics! Check your ego at the door. You may have had "perceived" success in your other sports when you were able to work playoffs and championship games after only 1-2 years. To me, that just means that you got lucky, they were short on experienced officials, or you knew somebody. No offense but you did not get those assignments because you were a great official. How could anyone know if you were so good after only 1 or 2 seasons. Well, maybe they could in those other sports but not in basketball, the bar is much higher. Show patience, work your schedule, let your assignors know of your desire to move up, work hard at being a good official. If, after 80-100 games worked at your highest level you still get shut out of the NEXT level, then you may have to make a personal decision. |
The only reason I brought up the college/pro thing was because it seemed like the original poster must have certain aspirations of either making officiating a career or just doing it for the power aspect of being an official. It just seemed odd to me that the guy was ready to give it up so quickly. Officiating 3 sports, essentially year-round, why would you do it if you didn't love the game and enjoy it just for what it is? If working varsity is that important, I'm guessing it might have been more of a power thing than a fun thing to begin with. Bragging rights maybe? I don't get it at all.
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Coincidentally, Smitty & I belong to the same association, and it sounds like our schedules are pretty similar. It also happens that we are assigned as partners for one of those "small school girl's varsity" games he mentioned next week. It should be a blast! Unlike some of the larger community schools where the fans have become pretty jaded, the smaller communities really come out to support their kids - it's a real kick! |
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I've got a question for you. Do you do baseball? I do both and I would refer you to the general discussion forum where I posed this very same question. Read some of the responses I think you will find it interesting. |
Gordon, I have done baseball in the past, I haven't done it in the past 7-8 years but had umped for 7-8 years through when I was in High school and College. Maybe it's tougher to ump high school and college games but I don't view it that way.
I will look at the discussion on the other board though. |
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Peace |
I disagree that Football is harder to referee than basketball. I do both and they are different sports. I would not equate them in any way.
Football has a lot more rules, but I think there is as much or more judgement in Basketball. To get the basics down in football is much easier. I can bet that you were not a white hat refereeing varsity football your first year. If so WOW! I would not want a brand new rookie doing a varsity game in football either. You should consider yourself lucky. You have your positions in football and most of the time guys keep the same position. In basketball there are no "positions" You have to know the game all the way thru. If it is no fun, give it up. You lose the edge on the court or on the field when it is no longer fun. I know of a few first year officials who are pretty good,(most of them their moms or dads taught them too) but those are the rare exception. Ref the 8th and 9th graders for a while. You'll learn more about the exceptions to the game because everything happens in those games. In a year and a half I doubt that youve seen all the stuff that can go on! |
You alone are responsible for your education and training. The routine association meetings going over rules, etc. just don't cut it. To become excellent at officiating any sport, it requires going the extra step and attending camps or clinics. Not to mention reading the rule book and case book every year (at least), taking rules quizzes, studying mechanics procedures, communication with partners. And of course, working MANY games.
There could be a whole new thread on which sport is most difficult. If you think basketball is easiest after two seasons, I would suggest a camp where probably every aspect of your game will be chewed up and spit out by the evaluators. The rules exam for basketball is far more difficult than the baseball exam. The basketball refresher exam can be failed by many veteran refrerees who don't keep up and study. I have seen it happen. You can't just pass a written exam and then improve your ability by just showing up year after year and working a few games. Years mean nothing about quality. Lastly, I agree that officiating should be fun. But for me, fun is becoming the best official I can become, and eventually work up to the highest level I am capabable of or reasonably desire. Over ten years I have been to four baseball camps and four basketball camps. Each time it has enhanced my skills from major deficiencies early on, to fine tuning and making tiny adjustments at later clinics. I have sacrificed some games to attend these, but in the big picture it has paid off. I would caution Cowboyfan, or anyone, not to be in too big of a hurry to advance. Getting in over your head and screwing up can be detrimental to your reputation. It takes 4 to 5 years to realistically consider yourself "good." |
I heard a senior guy say this to a young-in; "take your time going up the ladder, because it hurts if you fall off". He also said; "most guys who fall off and get hurt, don't come back".
Seemed like wise words. Signed, Confusious |
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It also appears to me from the tenor of the original post in this thread, that it's essentially a case of "sour grapes" on the part of the originator because after 1-1/2 years he's not getting the higher level assignments - not a very realistic position IMHO. I'm fortunate in that my schedule is flexible enough to allow me to work the occasional early game which, unless I get tagged with the occasional double, allows me to get home at a reasonable time for dinner & an evening with my family. Nor do I want to work 6 day a week. My assignor knows & respects that, but also knows that if he gets in a bind I'll do what I can to help out. |
The rules exam for basketball is far more difficult than the baseball exam.
I beg to differ with you on this. Compare baseball rules to basketball rules. Baseball rules are much harder to master than basketball of this there is no question IMHO. Especially when you start discussing interfence and obstruction to say nothing about balks and situations where you can an advantagous fourth out (I'm not kidding), first time by, batting out of order I could go on and on. |
An advantageous fourth out? What the heck is that? Just kidding, of course I know what it is. That's what I meant about another thread could cover this. I suppose this is a matter of personal opinion and experience and there is no wrong or right answer to which sport is easier or harder. I personally find baseball exams to be easier (for me). I personally find baseball easier to officiate, but this is after ten years of continued experience and repeated study of all the little intricacies (balks, obstruction, interference, base awards, etc.).
It doesn't really matter. My point to the original poster was that basketball rules, mechanics and game management can't be mastered in two seasons (same with baseball). They can't be mastered at all without dedication to improve. |
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In my opinion, the only reason to quit given in your post that you are not having fun.
We all officiate for different reasons, and I think one off the reasons all of us do it is because we love doing it. In my first year in my association I worked 8 varsity games (4 at the 2A level, 4 at the 3A level...Texas schools go up to 5A in size). However, I had been officating independantly for 2 years and had called a couple hundred games. I also went to every camp available in the area. That gave me a chance to work in front of the "powers that be" in the association and the assignment secretary got to watch me work a lot (even worked a couple of camp games with him). I also started officiating when I was 42. Many of the things that make you successful in business translate well to officiating. I understood that appearance and attitude were important. I knew how much dependability, flexibility and willingness to help out regardless of the level were valued...because I value those in my business life. I had also developed the interpersonal skills needed, I just needed to learn how to apply them in the environment of a basketball game. Those are things that can only be developed over time. IMO, that is why it takes a few years for officials to get the higher level games. In some ways, our situations are the same. I had to take last year off. During that time, the assignment secretary changed and this person does not know me nearly as well nor has he had a chance to see me work. Accordingly, I have only worked 2 varsity games this year. I understand I have to develop some capital with him before he is going to put me in more varsity games and I am fine with that...but then, because of my age when I started there is no reason to have aspirations beyond a decent high school varsity schedule so I do not view it as a serious set back. |
Cowboyfan
There is much to say and many here have said it very well. Chuck Elias really hit it on the head - you have absolutely no idea of the evaluations being made of your performance. And if you don't have the big games, then you don't cut the mustard yet. You have been evaluated and you just didn't know it.
I'm not trying to offend you, but there is no possible way you can have accumulated the required experience to work top level anything in 1.5 years... in any sport. Ask any of those that are ahead of you how many YEARS they spent getting to where they are. Experience is needed and in general that takes years of time and strenuous effort. I worked in a Regional, Adult slow-pitch tournement with only a couple years of experience. I wasn't near the official I am today, 20 plus years later. They needed a body and I happened to be one of the better choices at the time. I didn't do well and likely wasn't strong enough to have worked the plate (slow pitch softball... the plate! Oooh baby that's demanding). I only worked my first High School state championship (fast-pitch softball) last year. Worked State American Legion Baseball championship this last year also! As others have said, it seems that to rise to the top in basketball is more difficult - more competitive than other sports. Another thing that is common to officials is that we all tend to think we are better than we really are. And the younger and the newer we are, the more we think we are being cheated due to politics. And those that think they are superstars deserving to be promoted immediately (whining and begging, pleading for bigger games) are generally the worst. I would ask you to continue officiating, but you've got to discard your ego. I only know of a couple officials that worked Varsity level Basketball in less than 4 years... and it was a couple more years before they worked the top games. And in general, I don't think they were ready. It was an eye opener for them. As the veterans will say "You've got to pay your dues." And I will add, being promoted without paying your dues, will end your career... quickly. And you won't have a choice, like you do now. ;) |
You have got to be kidding me. Slow down there big boy. Just because you are successful in one sport does not mean you are automatically successful in another. Basketball takes a lot of skill that you do not use in other sports to be successful. I work football and baseball and basketball has always been the most competitive and the hardest to master. You cannot expect in less than 5 years you are going to be working the big games already. If you were that good someone would have picked you up to do those games. Pretty much everything else that has been said is right on.
How in the hell did you get a state final in baseball in such a short period of time? There must not be many good umpires around. I have worked baseball for over 20 years and I have not reached that accomplishment yet. I am close but just it just has not happen. It also does not help that I worked in more than one place. But damn, 2 years? |
Sounds like we've got a lot in common. In my younger years I worked baseball and football. My first varsity football assignment came during my first year. I was working high school baseball while I was a junior in high school. In baseball and softball I was working state and regional tournaments in my second or third year. I was in demand and my calendar was always full.
Then I caught the bug and started doing basketball. Oh my! It is a different world. I worked my tail off. I worked every game I could beg, many for free. I went to camps. I bought the new gear (thankfully basketball gear is a lot cheaper than baseball). I joined a gym and hired a trainer. I studied the rules. I did all of this before my first year of HS basketball. I was ready to rock and roll. But my expectations had been set by my experience with other sports. I got my first schedule and it had a grand total of 3 games. All freshman and sophomore. Mostly girls. The next schedule had 4! Woo hoo. If I remember correctly, I was assigned exactly 10 games last year. Was I ready to quit? You bet I was. But the problem wasn't so much with me -- it was with my expectations. This isn't baseball or football. I stuck it out, and was willing to take this new challenge on its terms. I began paying my dues. I went to the camps. I began meeting the people that mattered. I was ready, willing and eager to take turnbacks on a moments notice. I kept my bag packed and in my car and IMed the assignor several times each week. I began hanging around to watch the varsity officials. I talked to many different people and tried to get an idea of what I should really expect. Oh, and I got better. I look back now and understand that last year I didn't even realize how weak I really was. I expect that next year I'll look back on this year the same way. This year, my schedule has improved immensely. I'm literally having to tell assignors no because I don't have any more room in my schedule. I think what people have said about quitting if it's not fun is probably right. But before you pull the trigger, try to accept basketball officiating on its terms. Happiness is not in getting what you want, it's in wanting what get. |
I think everyone's made good points in this discussion and the main thing is that politics is certainly a factor, but a minimal factor. After all, the assignors have to deal with any problems that arise out of games and they're not gonna put someone on a game that they think may cause a problem. I think politics plays a larger role for the older officials on the way out than the young people coming up, and a lot of that has to do with the familiarity and game management skills that the older guys bring.
As for getting the better games, I am currently in 3 associations and I am getting a full varsity schedule this year, my 3rd year. After 1.5 years, I was lucky enough to get decent varsity action, mainly because I worked games every day and was available at the last minute for a rivalry game when someone went down. I have a tape of that game, and although at the time I thought I did great, with another year and close to 250 games more experience, I realize how much better I could have done. I still review that game tape if I think I'm getting too big of an ego, and although I certainly didn't call a bad game even a year's experience makes me question some "quality of calls" issues as well as game management. There are several reasons, from my perspective, why assignors do things the way they do them. Getting a bunch of JV games doesn't necessarily mean you're not a varsity quality official. A former D1 ref who I worked with who still works the big time HS games here made a big impact on me when he told me that "JV games are great because they teach you how to be the man. If you're working varsity you're generally with a horse who can make anything run smoothly, but in JV games you learn to take charge and manage situations." Officiating basketball is more than simply calling the game and the big time referees have all the other factors that the rest of us need to work on before we get those games. A lot of guys phone in the lower level games and the rec league stuff and waste a great chance to improve. I tend to think of assignors as basically the coach of a team, ideally putting officials in situations to improve, but the officials need to make the effort to do that. It is my belief that when I'm good enough to do the marquee games, I will be doing them. Of course politics plays some role in everything and getting to know the assignor and the senior guys in the association is huge. But doing so, watching a lot of games, HS and college and talking to the vets I think helps you grow as an official as well. JMHO. |
Thanks for the advise all. I will give the camp thing a try next summer.
I'm not saying I am looking for top level varsity games in my second year but some small school stuff would be nice. I have called higher level JV that puts low level varsity to shame. I don't even need alot of games, heck even one every other week is fine. I do enjoy calling mainly cuz being around the kids is fun, even the low level Jr High "worst basketball on the face of the earth" stuff. It is all the side stuff that is bringing me down on basketball. BTW, no it is not a lack of team player thing as this is the first I have voiced anything about it. If I get a call from anyone, and I am available, I work. I have driven over an hour for a single freshman game before. I just really hate that there is no evaluation going on to know what I need to improve on. I don't want to be one of these officials that after 5 or 6 years is horrible and does not have a clue and think that I do. Anyways.. thanks again all. I will give it atleast 1 more year. |
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