Flopping - OK or T?

[Ref Daddy]

Boys JV last night. Home team in command from the opening tip.

Home team has that "dominant player" a big mobil center that was having his way underneith - he was quick, graceful, stronger, bigger, smarter - than the opponents. They couldn't stop him.

In the fourth quarter - I'm trail watching a corner play my area. Underneith the opponent guarding the center falls to the floor and yells out in "pain". I glance - my partner (3 year guy) is right in front of it. No call. Better team scores.

Downcourt I'm lead now. Same thing. Off ball the offensive player against the big center - away from the play collapes to the floor and yells in pain. His team scores I stop the clock.

First thought was the kid was having a seisure or cramp. I approach him as he rolls on the floor, he gets up and he trots away and back down court. Ahh, I get it. This was a vagrent obvious FLOP. Stupid me!

By the time I figure it out - he's a full court away and setting up defensivly.

Q1) Should I called a "T" then and there from that far away and after the delay?

Score was like 68 - 25 so I let it go.

Next down I'm trail again right in the "floppers" coach's pocket. Coach says to me - "I'm telling them to draw that foul. We have to get their big guy outta there. Help me!"

Q2) Should I T coach right then and there?

I did nothing.

Dead ball occurs (out of bounds). I call Partner over and explained privatly that Kid is flopping - coach telling him to do it. Lets T next one. We agree.

Nothing else rest of game. No more flops.

Q3) I considered telling the flopper to cut it out during a "break" or next dead ball. But I would be contracdicting his coach!

RSVP

[Jurassic Referee]

Tell the coach that what he's teaching is unsporting conduct, and the next flop that you see will be a "T". If you get a chance, tell the player too. No arguing or any more explanation needed. Then do it. Jmo.

[Adam]

I'd simply warn the coach that if one more of his kids flops, you're going to have a technical foul. Then let him know that if he asks you one more time to cheat for him, then he's going to get one of his own.

[OFISHE8]

My question is this: If we are supposed to be calling a flop a "T" do we ever have a "no call" on a drive or when the defensive player is under the basket? If it is not a "T" then do we have to call a block or a charge?

[Adam]

You can have a no call, if the player who initiates the contact is the only one put at a disadvantage, no-call it.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by OFISHE8
My question is this: If we are supposed to be calling a flop a "T" do we ever have a "no call" on a drive or when the defensive player is under the basket? If it is not a "T" then do we have to call a block or a charge?

You call a "block" or "charge" according to the contact involved and whether that contact affected the play or was incidental. There is no contact involved with a "flop".

[nine01c]

I had a flopper last week in a boys JV game. First time he did it, I ignored and he didn't get a call. Sometimes they will figure out it doesn't work. This kid did it again shortly after. I was near his bench and his coach was sayinjg to me, "Where's the foul, my kid is getting run over in there?" I told him his kid is flopping. He say No he isn't. I said, Yes he is and he better knock it off. That was the end of the flopping episodes.

Although flopping is a T, I like to ignore first (kid sees he won't fake me out), then warn that it is unacceptable.
A T would be next if he (or a teammate) kept it up, but I haven't had to T a player for this yet. I suppose if the coach is telling him to do it, you can say to the coach, "Well, do YOU want to tell him it's a Technical, or do you want ME to tell him?" Of course, how you handle this and other things will depend on the game itself, how the players and coaches have behaved, etc...

[Robmoz]

Originally posted by Ref Daddy
Boys JV last night. Home team in command from the opening tip.

Home team has that "dominant player" a big mobil center that was having his way underneith - he was quick, graceful, stronger, bigger, smarter - than the opponents. They couldn't stop him.

In the fourth quarter - I'm trail watching a corner play my area. Underneith the opponent guarding the center falls to the floor and yells out in "pain". I glance - my partner (3 year guy) is right in front of it. No call. Better team scores.

Downcourt I'm lead now. Same thing. Off ball the offensive player against the big center - away from the play collapes to the floor and yells in pain. His team scores I stop the clock.

He flopped as the offensive player? Flopping to for me is usually associated with a defensive player. In this case, the kid just may have got hit and really had a moment of pain, sucked it up and hustled back to play defense.

First thought was the kid was having a seisure or cramp. I approach him as he rolls on the floor, he gets up and he trots away and back down court. Ahh, I get it. This was a vagrent obvious FLOP. Stupid me!

By the time I figure it out - he's a full court away and setting up defensivly.

You may have presumed too much at this point as it might smell bad but still vague.

Next down I'm trail again right in the "floppers" coach's pocket. Coach says to me - "I'm telling them to draw that foul. We have to get their big guy outta there. Help me!"

Q2) Should I T coach right then and there? I did nothing.

T the coach for what? Sounds like he was begging but unless it becomes incessant you did the right thing by letting it go.

Dead ball occurs (out of bounds). I call Partner over and explained privatly that Kid is flopping - coach telling him to do it. Lets T next one. We agree.

The coach did not tell his player to FLOP, he told them to try and draw a foul, could be lost in the translation but you should have set the kid straight at the first occurence. The first sign of a flop and a no-call you better tell him to knock it off or risk getting a T, can't hurt to run by the coach and offer the same message.

Q3) I considered telling the flopper to cut it out during a "break" or next dead ball. But I would be contracdicting his coach!

Only tell'em once at the first occurence and it usually ends there.

[ChrisSportsFan]

just last night i had a flopper and hit him with a block. he say's "i never touched him". i let him know that "you're such a good actor that i thought you did", and that was the end of his acting career.

[Exkalybr]

Chris, I think I am going to use that response in one of my upcoming games, I am sure the point will be taken. Although the kids coach might get perturbed by the "phantom" fouler. I guess we have to let the chips fall where they may sometimes.