"Move Your Feet!"

rainmaker · #1 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 03, 2005, 01:10am

It's no wonder kids are confused about the rules, when what they hear from parents and coaches is wrong. Nothing bugs me more than when the coach yells at a kid, "Move your feet!" and that's exactly what I called the foul for! If the kid hadn't moved, she'd have drawn the charge. Instead, she did what her coach told her in practice a thousand times, and moved her feet. Problem was, coach didn't talk in practice about when TO move feet, and when NOT to. Bugs the heck out of me.

zebraman · #2 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 03, 2005, 02:07am

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
It's no wonder kids are confused about the rules, when what they hear from parents and coaches is wrong. Nothing bugs me more than when the coach yells at a kid, "Move your feet!" and that's exactly what I called the foul for! If the kid hadn't moved, she'd have drawn the charge. Instead, she did what her coach told her in practice a thousand times, and moved her feet. Problem was, coach didn't talk in practice about when TO move feet, and when NOT to. Bugs the heck out of me.

Rainmaker,

When coaches tell their players to "move their feet," it's usually a good thing for us officials. They are trying to get their kids to play defense by getting in good position rather than holding or handchecking to stay with their opponent. So it's usually good advice, even if it comes from parents or coaches.

As you well know, a defender can draw a charge even if the feet are moving. The only time it would be bad advice is if the coach yells, "move your feet" after the opponent has become an airborne shooter.

Z

BktBallRef · #3 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 03, 2005, 02:17am

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
..."Move your feet!" and that's exactly what I called the foul for! If the kid hadn't moved, she'd have drawn the charge.

How so?

Snake~eyes · #4 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 03, 2005, 03:12am

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
..."Move your feet!" and that's exactly what I called the foul for! If the kid hadn't moved, she'd have drawn the charge.

How so?

Good question, also, how does one play defense without moving their feet?

zebra44 · #5 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 03, 2005, 05:34am

I worked a lot of sub varsity games years a go with a guy who would call a defender for a block if they would turn slightly to shield their face from the impending crash of the offensive player. He was about 95% block in the block/charge calls. The tootsies can move as long as defensive position is established.

tomegun · #6 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 03, 2005, 06:48am

Rainmaker, worry more about whether legal guarding position was established and where the defender took the contact. If legal guarding position was established and the defender takes the contact in the torso the feet do not have to be set and more times than not this will be a charge.

brianp134 · #7 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 03, 2005, 07:40am

Tom

I agree with you 100%. Sounds like you gave a text book definition of legal guarding position. Too often many officials are under the misconception that feet have to remain still.

Nevadaref · #8 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 03, 2005, 08:15am

rainmaker clearly knows that the feet can move and it can still be a PC, and I'm sure that she doesn't call it incorrectly. What I think that she is talking about is that, especially at the subvarsity level where more of the officials are inexperienced, this play often gets called like the guy zebra44 worked with.

Quote:

Originally posted by zebra44
I worked a lot of sub varsity games years a go with a guy who would call a defender for a block if they would turn slightly to shield their face from the impending crash of the offensive player. He was about 95% block in the block/charge calls. The tootsies can move as long as defensive position is established.

Therefore, she may well be right that the player is being penalized solely because he moved his feet! We know that this isn't right, but we also must acknowledge that kids are frequently penalized for it.

Jimgolf · #9 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 03, 2005, 08:48am

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
It's no wonder kids are confused about the rules, when what they hear from parents and coaches is wrong. Nothing bugs me more than when the coach yells at a kid, "Move your feet!" and that's exactly what I called the foul for!

If she didn't move her feet, she would have leaned in, or reached in, and caused the contact. The coach is yelling to "Move your feet" because you cannot maintain established LGP without moving your feet.

rainmaker · #10 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 03, 2005, 09:59am

Quote:

Originally posted by Jimgolf

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
It's no wonder kids are confused about the rules, when what they hear from parents and coaches is wrong. Nothing bugs me more than when the coach yells at a kid, "Move your feet!" and that's exactly what I called the foul for!

If she didn't move her feet, she would have leaned in, or reached in, and caused the contact. The coach is yelling to "Move your feet" because you cannot maintain established LGP without moving your feet.

You are right, of course, that she would have leaned or reached if she hadn't moved her feet.

I guess I shouldn't have posted last night. From the response, it's clear I was incoherent. And I hadn't had a drop of anything stronger than water

What I meant was that ...

never mind. I"ve gotta go get some work done.

blindzebra · #11 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 03, 2005, 06:30pm

Quote:

Originally posted by tomegun
Rainmaker, worry more about whether legal guarding position was established and where the defender took the contact. If legal guarding position was established and the defender takes the contact in the torso the feet do not have to be set and more times than not this will be a charge.

What if B1 had LGP and takes it in the chest, but steps TOWARD A1 at the point of contact?

or

What if B1 has LGP, does not step, but turns at the last second and takes the contact on their side?

More often than not, when you say,"More often than not," some smart a$$ will point out that's not always the case.

rainmaker · #12 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 03, 2005, 08:54pm

Quote:

Originally posted by tomegun
Rainmaker, worry more about whether legal guarding position was established and where the defender took the contact. If legal guarding position was established and the defender takes the contact in the torso the feet do not have to be set and more times than not this will be a charge.

Tom -- thank you for this very insightful and illuminating discussion of the block/charge. Too bad it doesn't have anything to do with the original post.

Obviously, you guys didn't understand me. What does it take to get through to you-all? Sheez, what a bunch of...

Hey, you know, Gordon is right, I like this routine! It feels great to say whatever offensive thing pops into my head and let YOU worry about it. After all, I can't offend you, unless you let me, right, Larry S? So it doesn't matter what I say, eh?

Dan_ref · #13 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 03, 2005, 09:54pm

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker

Quote:

Originally posted by tomegun
Rainmaker, worry more about whether legal guarding position was established and where the defender took the contact. If legal guarding position was established and the defender takes the contact in the torso the feet do not have to be set and more times than not this will be a charge.

Tom -- thank you for this very insightful and illuminating discussion of the block/charge. Too bad it doesn't have anything to do with the original post.

Obviously, you guys didn't understand me. What does it take to get through to you-all? Sheez, what a bunch of...

Hey, you know, Gordon is right, I like this routine! It feels great to say whatever offensive thing pops into my head and let YOU worry about it. After all, I can't offend you, unless you let me, right, Larry S? So it doesn't matter what I say, eh?

Uhmmm....I'm not the sharpest knife in this drawer but Juulie, wtf ARE you trying to tell us?? Make it simple enough for we dummys in the back of the class to understand, OK?

mick · #14 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 03, 2005, 10:48pm

Quote:

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker
..."Move your feet!" and that's exactly what I called the foul for! If the kid hadn't moved, she'd have drawn the charge.

How so?

Defender moved late and caused a block?

mick · #15 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 03, 2005, 10:54pm

Quote:

Originally posted by blindzebra

Quote:

Originally posted by tomegun
Rainmaker, worry more about whether legal guarding position was established and where the defender took the contact. If legal guarding position was established and the defender takes the contact in the torso the feet do not have to be set and more times than not this will be a charge.

What if B1 had LGP and takes it in the chest, but steps TOWARD A1 at the point of contact?

or

What if B1 has LGP, does not step, but turns at the last second and takes the contact on their side?

More often than not, when you say,"More often than not," some smart a$$ will point out that's not always the case.

Block and Block ,"More often than not"
mick