Can a basket count if released after horn?

[snorman75]

I did not get much traffic from the last post so I thought I would repost:

Ok, using NCAA rules. In a adult church league game.

Time is running out. Team A is down 2. A1 goes to shoot and is fouled by B1. A1 double cluches and them makes the shot. No question the basket is good under normal situation. The problem in the horn had gone off after the foul but before the release of the shot.

We counted the basket, and the awarded a foul shot. The kid missed and Team A lost in OT, so there was no protest.

Were we right?

The 2 replies so far are split. One saying the basket should not count and 2 foul shoots should be given, and the other saying the clock really stoped at the time of the foul (using NCAA rules) before the horn, so the basket should count and 1 foul shot awarded.

[nine01c]

I only know NFHS rules and I agree with opinion number one. However, even if numberer two is correcdt (for NCAA), are the referees supposed to SEE the exact time on the clock when the whistle blows for this foul? Do they put this time back on the clock? What if they didn't see it?
Just curious.

[TriggerMN]

Shot is no good. It MUST be released prior to the horn, no exceptions. However, since the foul occurred before the horn, A1 is awarded 2 free throws, regardless of whether or not the shot attempt went in.

[BktBallRef]

I believe the issue is that since there's no lag time in NCAA, the clock should stop on the whistle. So if the whistle sounds before time expires, the horn should not sound. Are there interps that address this?

[Adam]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
I believe the issue is that since there's no lag time in NCAA, the clock should stop on the whistle. So if the whistle sounds before time expires, the horn should not sound. Are there interps that address this?

Games that aren't televised wouldn't have this issue, but I'd like to know the answer to this, too.

[SteveMcClellan]

It would seem that (with there being no lag time), time would have to be put back on the clock, unless it is required that the officials have definitive knowledge before adjusting the clock, as is the case in NFHS. Is the "definitive knowledge" requirement in place in NCAA?

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by SteveMcClellan
It would seem that (with there being no lag time), time would have to be put back on the clock, unless it is required that the officials have definitive knowledge before adjusting the clock, as is the case in NFHS. Is the "definitive knowledge" requirement in place in NCAA?

Yes it is, but they can get this information from the courtside monitor.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Nevadaref

Yes it is, but they can get this information from the courtside monitor.

... If there is a moinitor.

There's also the same (or substantially similar) language in the book that "if a foul or violation occurs so close to the end of a period that the timer can't stop the clock before the horn, the period ends with the foul or violation."

The "lag time" only comes into play when the official blows the whistle, sees the time remaining (either immedeiatley, or subsequently using the monitor) and the timer stops the clock within one second. In FED, we leave the time where it stopepd; in NCAA we reset it to what the official saw. (If more than one second ran off the clock, reset it to waht the official saw in both cases).

So, imho, both answers to the question are correct, depending on whether there was a monitor, and depending on what the official saw.

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

... If there is a moinitor.

There's also the same (or substantially similar) language in the book that "if a foul or violation occurs so close to the end of a period that the timer can't stop the clock before the horn, the period ends with the foul or violation."

The "lag time" only comes into play when the official blows the whistle, sees the time remaining (either immedeiatley, or subsequently using the monitor) and the timer stops the clock within one second. In FED, we leave the time where it stopepd; in NCAA we reset it to what the official saw. (If more than one second ran off the clock, reset it to waht the official saw in both cases).

So, imho, both answers to the question are correct, depending on whether there was a monitor, and depending on what the official saw.

I agree Bob.
I would surmise though that in NCAA play the clock is reset more frequently than not.