Situation: NFHS Rules. 0:00.4 left on clock. After a free throw, the clock operator started the clock when the ball hit the front of the rim, rather than when it was first touched by a player? What is the proper procedure to correct, or is there one?

Need more info.

Who got the ball?

Did they get it before the horn sounded?

What's the score?

Who was shooting?

There is no good solution to this. The timer screwed up. However, the correct procedure by the book is to blow the whistle as soon as you recognize that the clock has been improperly started. Since this will be during a time when neither team has control (assuming that you notice as the ball is rebounding off the ring), you have to resume play with the AP arrow. The clock should be reset to 0.4 seconds.

I don't think that I have ever checked whether the clock started while I was watching a rebound. (I am still waiting for evolution to grant me my third eye.) But, I do have information as to exactly how much time was on the clock prior to the FT being attempted.

Team B was shooting the FT, Team A was ahead, and got the rebound of the missed FT about .1 (my best guesstimate) after the horn sounded. With 0.4 seconds left, the horn sounded before we could blow the whistle to trya nd correct the error.

This one's relatively easy. Game over. Team A got the rebound anyway. B may not be happy, but.
If B had the rebound, you could consider giving them the ball for a throw-in with .4 left.
Or, if B tips in the shot for a basket without a rebound; give them the score.
I'm not sure about that one, though.

By rule, the Timer started the game clock too soon. Reset the game clock to 0.4 seconds and give the ball to Team A for a throw-in closest to the spot where A1 gathered in the rebound.

MTD, Sr.

[Edited by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. on Jan 2nd, 2005 at 11:09 PM]

Why are you giving the ball to Team B?

With the estimate of the rebound coming 0.1 seconds after the horn, this probably doesn't apply in this case, but what about the possibility that hearing the horn made B stop going after the rebound (yes - I realize they should "play the whistle," but we all know how players are sometimes)? What if the horn sounded, B pulled back, then A grabbed the rebound?

I was thinking of this while writing that. I'd say in that case, go with the arrow.

BBR:

I misread who got the rebound. Which ever team got the rebound should get the throw-in. I guess I am getting senile in my old age. I will go back and edit my origianl post. Thanks.

MTD, Sr.

Thought I had missed something. :)

By what rule reference are we giving the ball to team A or B based on a rebound? The horn sounded with no team control, I would say this would have to go to the AP arrow with .4 back on the clock.

MTD and Tony are talking about the case in which either A1 or B1 catches the rebound just before time expires. Therefore, when the whistle is blown there is team control.

The post that I made earlier handled what to do if the ball is still coming off the ring DURING the rebound and you notice that the clock is already running. That one is AP.

I don't wish to speak for MTD or Tony, but it seems to me that all of us are basing our rulings on 7.5.4 and 6-4-3e.

I feel like I am beating my head against a brick wall. The game clock was started incorrectly. The sounding of the game clock's horn does not stop play in this case. The only problem is a game clock problem. You stop play at the first opportunity and correct the game clock. In this case when the player gained control of the rebound.

MTD, Sr.

Thanks, looks like we need another case play ruling for this one. I guess we are ignoring 6-7-6 because it's a timer's error.

I agree that if we have a seguence of ball hitting rim, clock starting, rebound, HORN, whistle, then yes it would go to the rebounding team. I have trouble doing that with a seguence of hit, clock, HORN, rebound, whistle.

Just like the 2.8 case we do not have a case play under timer's error that fits this situation.

BANG!! BANG!! BANG!!

That is the sound of me banging my head against a brick wall.

MTD, Sr.

That could explain why you make up so many interpretations without rule support.:D

Point to a rule or case play that supports your ruling of giving the ball to a team that gained control AFTER the game ended incorrectly.

This is where I bang my head against the wall.

BZ:

You do NOT know the rule NOR do you know how to apply it.

MTD, Sr.

Which rule? Which case play? Where does it say to give the ball to the team that gains possession AFTER the horn.

You want to be a smart a$$, but you still have not given a rules reference.;)

BZ:

We have gone down this road before. I have presented all the appropriate rules, casebook plays, and approved rulings. But you insist on wanting to do something that the rules do not allow.

That is why is why it is like banging my head against a brick wall with you.

Have a Happy New Year and I hope you do not get into a situation where you attempt to apply the rules incorrectly and get yourself in water over your head.

MTD, Sr.

Really, what rule and/or case play have you quoted in THIS thread?

Or are you talking about your "official" ruling that subtracts .4 seconds by guess-work in the 2.8 play?

Or does your post just need translation?

Translation:

MTD can't support it by rule, so he is ignoring the question.:D