Boys JV game. Team A is pressing B in their backcourt. B1 loses control of his dribble and kneels to pick up the ball. After gaining control with one knee on the floor with two defenders surrounding him, he stands up and begins to dribble away. I am the T and call him for the travel. B1 looks at me and bangs the ball to the floor. Ball bounced about 12-15 feet in the air. Bang, T on B1.

As I go to the table to report the T, one of B's coaches is standing next to the table questioning me about the travel call asking, "how can it be a travel, he didn't have control?" I looked at him and asked if he was the HC. He said no, I put my whistle in my mouth, took two steps back while looking at him, and began to put my hands in a T formation. He turned soo quick and went to his bench and sat down before I could blow my whistle.LOL I let it go and did not T him thinking he got the message.

Should I have T'd him up? What would you have done in this situation involving the AC?

When B1 knelt to pick up the ball, that act of picking up the ball ended his original dribble. Then it's an automatic travel when he stood up off of the one knee. Even if he started a dribble on the floor and then stood up, it would have been a second, illegal dribble.

Bouncing the ball that high is an automatic "T" too imo. As for the assistant coach, you got the message across well on that one without having to resort to another "T".

Good job.

theumpferee:

As far as B1 is concerned, you did good.

How you handled Assistant Coach B is a different manner. Whenever the ball is dead and the clock is stopped, I never use the whistle to assess a technical foul to a coach or player, unless I absolutely have too. In your case. I would told him he has a T and then report it to the table. By avoiding the use of your whistle and giving the T sign, it helps keep a potentional volitale situation from getting worse. And in your case it is a lot quicker and you would have been able to whack him before he turned around and slithered away.

MTD, Sr.

Mark,

Perhaps a dumb question, but if you do not give a T sign or blow the whistle during a dead ball T, then how do you keep your partners informed on what's going on? I understand your point and I agree with it; however, I have had a few times this season where a partner calls a T (justified) but I am too far away to hear the actual call so until we start to move to a free throw line I just stand there because I really don't know wht he called.

If you call a T should you announce loudly why so your partners know or should you get together with them in a quick conference to inofrm them (assuming there's no fight going on)? Is this part of a good pre-game?

Good pregame, definitely. You should or another partner should always intervene the official calling a technical foul. This will help calm both the calling official and the entire set of players and coaches and also will get all partners informed of what the call. We pregame that if you partner calls a T you should intercept him before he reports to the table and review what happened and the procedure for shooting and putting the ball back in play.

Pregame, pregame, pregame. Whenever an intentional (personal or technical), flagrant (personal or technical) or any technical foul is assesed, the calling official and his partner(s) need to meet at center court for a short (10 sec or less) informational meeting.

MTD, Sr.

I think you handled the entire thing quite well. The first T sounds justified and you took care of the second situation without a T which is a plus.

Z

I disagree -- there's a whistle and a signal on every technical. Just another foul, but I want people (everyone) to know it's been called.

In a JV game, I probably would have whacked the assistant coach. They need to learn that questioning the officials as if you are the head coach is not allowed. In a varsity game, the first time I hear an assistant coach, I'm going to the head coach with, "Coach, I'll listen to you all night long, but I'm not going to listen to any of your assistants. If you want the privilege to keep standing, please help me out with them."

Something to that effect usually solves your problem.

I'm thinking it wouldn't matter if it were the head or assistant coach here. What's he doing at the table fussing about a call you aren't going to change anyway? I think I would strongly consider whacking either one.

Rich:

I agree with you to a point. Anytime the ball is live and a technical foul has been committed, I will sound the whistle, that just goes without saying. Lets say that I am reporting a foul on B1 and Head Coach B really takes exeption to me assessing a foul on B1. I will give him the stop sign and tell him that I am "whacking him." I do not think putting the whistle back in my mouth, sounding it and then giving the coach the "T" signal is necessary and in some cases will only make matters worse. Once you have told the coach, let your partner(s) now (even though I am sure they know what happened) so that they can do their jobs during this very stressful time for the entire crew.

Earlier this year, I had called a held ball between A1 and B1. I sounded my whistle and closed the gap from about 12 feet to 6 feet. A1 had let go of the ball at the sound of my whistle. B1 then dropped her right hand from the ball, made a fist, and threw a round house punch across her body connecting with A1's nose. I did not take the time to put the whistle back into my mouth. I stepped between the two players and told B1 that she was done for the night. I then told my partner, and then Coach B what happened before going to the Table.

I am not saying that an official to never sound his whistle for a technical foul, I just think that there are times when it is so obvious that sounding a whistle can just only make thinks worse.

MTD, Sr.

In my opinion, you did well in all aspects. Slamming the ball is an automatic "T" in my book, especially if it goes higher than the players head. As far as the Asst Coach, the look made him settle down and he got the picture. I have been told the whistle is an irratent and the more you blow, the more irratating it sounds. But it must be blown during a technical foul to alert your partners and/or the table.

I would like to add, my initial reaction was NOT to blow my whistle. It was to see what the action of the AC was going to be. If he would have stood there and shrugged his shoulders or something, I would have just T's him at the table. My actions were to show him what was forthcoming if his actions persisted and to give him a chance to re-evaluate his actions.

Maybe I should have just T'd him up!?

You did the right thing, you got the message across to him without having to penalize his players.

Good Job :)

I would not T the assistant in this case. I would just tell him that communication is done through the HC only.

I also think that you should already know who the HC is, and respond to the AC accordingly.

The travel is the right call. The first T is the right call. Get in and get out without having another T.

I don't really like giving an almost T signal. People might interpret that you chickened out because he got the best of you: we don't almost put our arm in the air when there was almost a foul. We don't almost through our flag when there could have been an illegal block. We don't almost pull out the yellow card. It's either a T signal or nothing.

I like this plan of attack. Smooth.

I am an assistant varisty girls coach. I check the forum on a daily basis to keep up on the rules. Head coach does not have an intimate knowledge of the rules. The other night there is a designated throw in, girl shuffles her feet. Official blows whistle and gives the traveling signal.(Don't cringe!) It appeared to me she had one foot at all times over the designated spot. I tried to tell our head coach there is no traveling on a designated throw in and the call should be questioned. He looked at me like he had no idea what I was talking about. If the head coach gets the officials attention can I be a part of the conversation or do we always pay the price for his lack of knowledge?

[Edited by RoyalsCoach on Dec 21st, 2004 at 05:12 PM]

This is why just like officials have to write an exam each year, I think coaches should have to write an exam every year.

Royalscoach, lemme ask you a question. Has challenging a call ever resulted in a reversal? What good is going to come of questioning the call?

Coach, you pay the price for the official's lack of knowledge, NOT your head coach's lack of knowledge! Get it? What if your HC knows the rule? Do you think questioning the official's call is going to change the call?? No, it's not. While looking at the game tape with the head coach, you might say something like, "Jeesh, I'm not sure why that official called traveling there. There is no travel call on an inbounds throw-in as all our player needs to do is keep part of her body over a 3-foot spot. HC, did you know that?"

If you're brave enough...and if the official seems receptive to the nice conversation your bench has been having with him the whole game, you might ask him/her about the call when he/she comes over to get you out of a TO huddle. That is one of the FEW times I might listen to an assistant. But it better be civil and done in a professional manner!!

I don't really expect to get a call changed. Mainly we like to know the call so we can use it as a learning experince for our players. Most officials, especially the ones we know, will at least tell the assistants what call was made. In this situation we may not get the call changed but we know the other officals probably know the correct call. If they talk at half time we may get the correct call in the second half.

This is good, and as others have said, it's worth it to talk to the ref politely and quietly when there is a chance to have a quick clean exchange. I think you could also work on your head coach to know the rules better, though. I mean, what happens if you get hit by a truck next week (God forbid!)? he needs to know how to work on things in practice, and not depend on you.

I also suggest you work with your players on letting it go when a ref makes a bad call. The coaches that win the most games say, "No way it's the refs' fault you lost this game. One bad call is not the thing that changed this game. You didn't hit your free throws, you passed the ball out of bounds, you fumbled the ball. You lost the game yourselves." Kids need to learn to forgive themselves, and it starts with learning to forgive others.

I totally agree. I have gained a lot of respect for officials by coming to this forum. We never let our players complain to the officials or they will be sitting. When you miss numerous layups and free throws, don't box out, throw the ball away and travel a few times it is hard to blame the officials for a loss.

We need more coaches like you, good job, and keep it up.

I tend to not listen to assistant coaches at all. But if a coach comes to me very respectfully and in the right tone of voice asking a question, I will accommodate. If they start to accuse me of something or my partners ("You missed that call") then all bets are off. RoyalCoach, I have no problem with the way you approach an official. Sometimes the assistant is the one with the questions more than the Head Coach. As long as both you and the HC are not talking to me at the same time, I really would not have a problem answering your questions. The problem is that most assistants do not behave that way and I will admit that I have a very short leach for anything assistants might say.

Just this past Saturday I had a conversation with an assistant coach that was asking me about a play. He did not raise his voice. He did not accuse me of anything. He just wanted to know why I made a call on his kid during a screen. He was even asking things like, "Well can't he do this" or "Can't he do that." He was so respectful I did not get upset or have a problem with the discussion. Actually the last thing I said to the coach, "well if he does that again, I am going to call the very same thing." They got the message and we moved on. No contention from the bench at any other point in the game.

Peace

I nominate ref18 as chairwoman of the Good Coach Appreciation Committee. Any seconds? :D

MTD- reading your post about no whistle and signal on a Tech foul, I must disagree with that and agree with Rich's comments about the whistle. After all this a game officiated with signals which communicate to everybody what is going on.

I don't see how a technical wasn't called on the assistant coach. If it was the HC it seems like it's a borderline T. The assistant, who is not allowed to even have a coach's box is out of the box and at the table arguing with a call. That's as automatic as it gets in my book. What if the assistant on the other team did the same thing? I agree with trying to reduce the number of technical fouls, but blatently ignoring a rule about bench decorum is not the way to handle the situation in my opinion. The more officials who let this type of thing go, the harder it becomes to create sportsmanship.

I agree completely.

A couple years back I was working a 8B game, CYO post season tourney. My partner was a high school age ref - exceptionally good for his age & experience level. I made an out of bounds call near the baseline, team that caused the the OOB called time out. As my partner reported the TO I noticed a woman walk out onto the floor towards him, so I headed that way & heard her start to complain to him about my OOB call. I walked up & said nicely "excuse me Mam, but who are you and why are you on the playing floor?" Her rather pompous response was "I'm the assistant coach!", to which I calmly replied "thankyou, technical foul". She started to say something else, so I gave her the "stop sign" and told her one more word & she'd be watching the rest of the game from the parking lot, and to please return to her team bench. I then reported the T and informed her HC he would have to sit the rest of the game.