Thumbs up for eschewing proper mechanics

[TriggerMN]

Saturday night, Oklahoma State vs. UNLV. Verne Harris, Scott Thornley, Steve Welmer. (By the way, the game finishes in Vegas at midnight eastern, and Welmer is doing an Ohio State home game the next afternoon. Mix in some sleep, big guy!) OSU steals and goes in for a layup opposite the table, and Harris sprints back and calls an intentional foul on UNLV. Great call, too. Then, instead of staying tableside after reporting the foul, he goes opposite, Thornley administers free throws, and Welmer lends his ear to UNLV coach Lon Kruger.

Proper mechanics say that Harris should stay tableside. However, it's obvious these guys pre-gamed this situation, and while it was still obviously a cut-and-dry intentional foul, they still did this rotation.

Personally, I loved it. I wish the NCAA would go back to having the reporting official go opposite. I understand both sides of it, but I feel it does more good NOT to have the calling official right by the coach. I feel more bad things can happen right next to the coach. If you're opposite, your partner(s) will undoubtedly have an easier job listening and settling the coach down.

Good job by the crew.

[PS2Man]

Originally posted by TriggerMN
Proper mechanics say that Harris should stay tableside. However, it's obvious these guys pre-gamed this situation, and while it was still obviously a cut-and-dry intentional foul, they still did this rotation.

You can to opposite table if there is an immediate problem with a coach. Maybe they just messed up. These guys are not perfect. They do make mistakes from time to time.

Originally posted by TriggerMN
Personally, I loved it. I wish the NCAA would go back to having the reporting official go opposite. I understand both sides of it, but I feel it does more good NOT to have the calling official right by the coach. I feel more bad things can happen right next to the coach. If you're opposite, your partner(s) will undoubtedly have an easier job listening and settling the coach down.

Good job by the crew.

I must completely disagree with your statement here. Having the calling official right in front of the coach can and will stop a lot of shouting and continuous chatter. The calling official can go right to the coach and say what happen or address a situation. If you do not have the communication skills to do this I could see this being a problem for any official. If you have the communication skills this makes your life a lot easier. I have used this system in college for the past 3 years and have seen the Ts go down because of it. The National Federation put this in place and I have not had the type of problems in those games because you can say something quit to the coach without and no one knows what you said be you and him. There is no way I would want to go back to the old system.

[Junker]

I like going table side also. It gives you a chance to talk to the coaches without having them scream across the gym at you. I just think that it opens communication lines a little more. You always have the option, as the crew demonstrated, of going away if you expect a problem.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

PS2Man, I disagree with your disagreement...

It didn't sound like this was a mistake on the official's part. Sounded intentional.

You stated:

can and will stop a lot of shouting and continuous chatter. The calling official can go right to the coach and say what happen or address a situation. If you do not have the communication skills to do this I could see this being a problem for any official. If you have the communication skills this makes your life a lot easier.

My response to your statements is, Maybe.

Communication is a two-way street. Your skills may be great; the coach's may suck. Result? you still have screaming and childish crap. Perhaps, a way to try to help that coach keep his frustration bottled or keep him from screaming is to put a different official in his proximity for him to yell around. ... rather than the official that is going to want to defend his call.

It depends upon the call... was it a chicken crap call? Well, chicken little, you better go collect your penalty. Was it a good call? Then the coach is probably being out-of-line. And maybe the best solution is to send someone else over to play drill seargent get him back in line.

Sounds like this crew had a well laid out plan and that it worked well. If only we all had the same forethought abilities.

JMHO

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown


My response to your statements is, Maybe.

Communication is a two-way street. Your skills may be great; the coach's may suck. Result? you still have screaming and childish crap. Perhaps, a way to try to help that coach keep his frustration bottled or keep him from screaming is to put a different official in his proximity for him to yell around. ... rather than the official that is going to want to defend his call.

I do not think it is necessary to get good communication from the coach. The coach is not there to tell you what you saw. The official is there to tell the coach what he saw. The coaches communication skills is not something I worry about. The coach either is going to listen or we have nothing to talk about. I have already this year just walked away from a coach that wants to talk while I am trying to explain anything.

I have to agree with PS2man on this one.

Peace

[PS2Man]

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
PS2Man, I disagree with your disagreement...

It didn't sound like this was a mistake on the official's part. Sounded intentional.

You stated:

My response to your statements is, Maybe.

Communication is a two-way street. Your skills may be great; the coach's may suck. Result? you still have screaming and childish crap. Perhaps, a way to try to help that coach keep his frustration bottled or keep him from screaming is to put a different official in his proximity for him to yell around. ... rather than the official that is going to want to defend his call.

It depends upon the call... was it a chicken crap call? Well, chicken little, you better go collect your penalty. Was it a good call? Then the coach is probably being out-of-line. And maybe the best solution is to send someone else over to play drill seargent get him back in line.

Sounds like this crew had a well laid out plan and that it worked well. If only we all had the same forethought abilities.

JMHO

In all the games I have worked using the tableside mechanic, I have yet to see a problem as a result. I guess you can go looking for problems that might arise but if you can communicate you will solve a lot of problems. To me this mechanic separates the men from the boys.

[ChrisSportsFan]

Tony and Rut said it, you may be good at communicating, but the coach is a High Level Idiot, now, how do you communicate? I have no problem responding/answering questions, but coaches opinions or statements are of no interest to me. All that said, coach asks a question, you're responding and he keeps cutting in. If I walk away, now I infuriate the fool or I can stay there and risk be sucked in. What's best?

[tomegun]

It seems to me that the more you make the correct call and you can explain it the more a coach either accepts what you have to say or does/says something worthy of a T. What I don't like about a partner "settling down a coach" is that is seems like someone is consoling a coach as if something wrong was done to the coach. The coaches have a responsibility to coach the game, they do not have a right to yell at us and it is not part of what they should do every game. I have no problem answering questions all night long within reason. Once we go beyond reason I'm through and I will not answer comments. Continually talking to a coach for every whistle will take away our focus. I'm not saying anyone said we should talk to a coach all night but I have seen it. I have told a few coaches in a rec environment that once we blow our whistle it is what it is. Any communication that is not in the form of a calm question cannot turn out positive for the coach, period. I'm not saying it will automatically result in a T, I'm saying there isn't any good that can come of it.

[Junker]

I agree with Tomegun. As a newer official, going tableside has really helped me focus on making calls I am sure of. I think it has helped me get rid of some of the "phantoms" I might have called earlier in my career. Now if I make a call, I want to be sure I can explain exactly what I saw because I may have to.

[JRutledge]

I had a high level idiot coach this weekend.

I called a foul from the C position, opposite table in the first half. I had noticed earlier when my partners were making calls he would gesture the "all ball" signal. He did this a few times. Well when I made this particular call this coach did it again. So after I reported the foul I went right to him. The conversation went something like this.

Coach-"He got all ball."

Me-"Coach I really do not care about that at this point, you need to stop gesturing."

Coach-"So you are telling me...."

Me-"Coach you are not listening to me, I told you to stop gesturing."

Coach-"So you are admitting......"

Me-"You obviously are not listening to me. I do not care what you think about the call, I just need you to stop gesturing every time we make a call. If you do not do so, then we are going to have a problem.

We did not have any major problems the rest of the game.

I even gave a T to one of his kids later in that game and he tried to argue a call, but did so in a much more reserved tone and non-verbal communication. He got the message that we were not playing with him and he adjusted his behavior. I made several calls that did not go this teamÂ’s way and he did not say a word after our conversation. For the record this is also a first year varsity coach that was playing a team that had not won a single game all year at this point. And this was the very first home game of the team that was winless. This coach's team was suspected to demolish the home team and have some bigger games coming up in the next few days. They lost by 10 or so points and were outplayed pumped up team that had a packed house.

Peace

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Originally posted by PS2Man

...if you can communicate you will solve a lot of problems. To me this mechanic separates the men from the boys.

You sound like a coach that likes to get in the last demeaning word. So I guess I'm a boy or Verne Harris, Scott Thornley, Steve Welmer are boys. So be it. I know Thornley has worked several final fours and the championship game a couple of times... I'm betting you haven't.

I fully agree. Make a good call. Go table side. If warranted, T the coach. If he continues to chide, send him home. But, I haven't worked any final fours either.

[PS2Man]

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown


You sound like a coach that likes to get in the last demeaning word. So I guess I'm a boy or Verne Harris, Scott Thornley, Steve Welmer are boys. So be it. I know Thornley has worked several final fours and the championship game a couple of times... I'm betting you haven't.

I fully agree. Make a good call. Go table side. If warranted, T the coach. If he continues to chide, send him home. But, I haven't worked any final fours either.

I think you are overreacting to what I said. I did not call anyone a boy. I said that going tableside can be a problem for those officials that do not have the communication skills to handle conflict. I would rather confront a situation immediately rather than 10 trips down the floor and finally I have a coach fuming over a call I made and I cannot remember what took place. The mechanic works well with all those I have come in contact with that are very experienced. The only ones that seem to have a problem are officials that are not very experienced or afraid of major confrontations with coaches. For all you know is these 3 officials messed up a rotation. I think you would have to be in the locker room to know for sure. This is not about what level you or I have achieved, this is about what is best for the game. I am sorry you were offended by my comments. Would it have been better if I said "this mechanic will separate the good officials from the bad ones?" Now that was said at a camp I attended this past summer by a Final Four Official that was teaching at the camp. Does that make you not a real official because you disagree? I do not know about that I am just sharing what I think.