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Quote:

Originally posted by zebraman

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Quote:

Originally posted by Junker
I've never understood why the double foul wasn't used more on post play.

Junker, the reason the double foul is not called very often is that one of the fouls is ususally clearly first. If we call the first foul, we go a long way to cleaning up rough play. Call the defender's knee in the butt and you eliminate the forearm push-off from the offensive player. Call the swim stroke on the offensive post player and you eliminate the reach over the shoulder by the defender.

A double foul is almost never an isolated event. Stuff has led up to it that we've missed or let go. Grab the first foul in the post and you don't need the double foul.

For the most part, I agree with Chuck. If you are calling a double foul very often, you're missing what instigated the rough play. However, once in a great while, a double foul can be your best friend. I had one last year where I had called an off-ball foul on each post player in successive possessions, but they continued to lock horns the next time down the floor. They might not have got the message when I called a double foul, but each coach got it loud and clear and promptly removed those two players from the game. The rest of the night was uneventful.

Z

It's the same analysis as a technical -- Will anything else do the job? Will it make the game better? When necessary, go for it!

Quote:

Originally posted by zebraman

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
the reason the double foul is not called very often is that one of the fouls is ususally clearly first.

A double foul is almost never an isolated event.

If you are calling a double foul very often, you're missing what instigated the rough play. However, once in a great while, a double foul can be your best friend.

I agree with you Z. That's why I worded my post as I did. Sometimes you need it, and that's why it's in the book. But the reason it's not called very often is that it's not needed very often if we grab the first one. Even in a game like Juulie's, where the rough stuff seems to spring up suddenly, as soon as we're aware of it, we need to get that first one on each end.

Quote:

Originally posted by Nevadaref
Chuck,
The reason that I am very careful about when to use the double foul in NFHS games is that it requires the use of the AP arrow.

I had a BV game last season that was very competitive. With only a few minutes remaining and a 2 point difference in the score, my partner called a double foul on two players pushing in the the post while a try was in flight. The ball went in and the arrow favored the scoring team.

I hate to break it to you, Nevada, but the college rule wouldn't have helped you in that sitch. Normally, after a double personal foul, you'd report the fouls and award the ball back to the team who was in control at the time of the whistle. However, since in your case the ball is in flight at the time of the double foul, there's no team control. So you still would've had to go to the arrow. :(

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Quote:

Originally posted by zebraman

Quote:

Originally posted by ChuckElias
the reason the double foul is not called very often is that one of the fouls is ususally clearly first.

A double foul is almost never an isolated event.

If you are calling a double foul very often, you're missing what instigated the rough play. However, once in a great while, a double foul can be your best friend.

I agree with you Z. That's why I worded my post as I did. Sometimes you need it, and that's why it's in the book. But the reason it's not called very often is that it's not needed very often if we grab the first one. Even in a game like Juulie's, where the rough stuff seems to spring up suddenly, as soon as we're aware of it, we need to get that first one on each end.

You know, I had another double foul last night. I was thinking about it on the way home, and I realized that both last night and the night before, these were situations where my partner should have gotten the "first one" but was ball-watching instead of keeping her or his area well-managed. So I'll back down a little on percentages, perhpas it's necessary less often then I originilly implied. Even so, the double foul has it's uses and can be very valuable in the proper place.

The first time I see excessive hands or contact in the post (off ball) I will say "hands off!" to them. This usually works. You don't always need to call a foul to get them to adjust. A foul works too, but the contact usually begins off the ball. If they continue after I've warned them, then I call the foul.

I'm on junker's side. In the post play a double can clear stuff up very quickly, especially when they are just taking turns banging at each other. I don't use it often because it isn't needed often. When I have called it and been questioned, I just explain that they wouldn't knock of the junk even after being told to do so. Most of the time both coaches get busy yelling at their players to clean it up and it works.