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After a made basket by A, B has a throw in anywhere along the endline. If A commits a foul or a violation (where the ball would be put in play on the endline), B retains the right to run the endline. My question is this. Is knocking the ball out of bounds considered a violation for this scenario?
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If so, then B gets the ball at the designated spot, with no right to run the endline. |
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We just had this thread and here's what I posted:
This determination seems simple to me. If the throw-in ends with an act that in itself is a violation (kicking or punching the ball, for example), they retain the right to run the baseline. If the throw-in ends with an act that, in itself, is NOT a violation (deflecting the ball, for example), then there is a spot throw-in if the deflection causes the ball to go OOB, since the deflection itself is not a violation - the ball going OOB is - and this happens after the throw-in ends. I hope that answers your question.
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Yom HaShoah |
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One last point to be added to Mark Padgett's post and that is that Team B retains the privilege to run the endline after Team A's violation or common foul (and Team B is not in the bonus) if the throw-in spot for the violation or common foul is to be the end line. If the spot of the throw-in for the violation is along the side line then that is where the throw-in will take place.
MTD, Sr.
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Mark T. DeNucci, Sr. Trumbull Co. (Warren, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn. Wood Co. (Bowling Green, Ohio) Bkb. Off. Assn. Ohio Assn. of Basketball Officials International Assn. of Approved Bkb. Officials Ohio High School Athletic Association Toledo, Ohio |
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That is the way I understand it too, but the rulebook doesn't say that. Rule 7-5-7 states that "a team retains this privilege (endline run) if the scoring team committs a violation or common file and the ensuing throw-in spot would have been on the end line. Note that it says nothing about that privilege ending once the throw-in ends. I've heard some say that the endline privileges end when the throw-in ends, but Case Book Play 7.5.7B disproves that. It shows that team B still has the end line run privileges even after A1 kicks the ball. As we all know, the throw-in ends when the passed ball touches or is touched by an inbounds player other than the thrower. So in this case, the throw-in has ended (with the kick) yet A1 retains endline run priveleges. So it sounds as if the FED is saying that the endline privileges end when the throw-in ends or if the throw-in ends with a violation by the defense. Even the "Major Editorial Changes" this year don't totally clear it up. It says, "Clarified that a team will retain end-line run privileges after a violation or common foul." Note that it says nothing there about when those privileges end either. Many in our state are being very liberal and letting the throwing team retain endline run privileges even if the foul or violation by the defense occurs after the throw-in ends, provided the ensuing throw-in is once again on the endline. They'll continue to do so until someone can show them a rule or case play that completely clears it up. Z |
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Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
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That's how I read it. The violation and the end of the throw-in are simultaneous. NCAA clears this up by saying the throw-in ends when it is legally touched on the court. Quote:
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"To win the game is great. To play the game is greater. But to love the game is the greatest of all." |
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[/B][/QUOTE]Jeff, casebook play 7.5.7SitB(c) is exactly the same as what you wrote above. As soon as an A player legally touched the throw-in in-bounds, the throw-in ended. If the ball then goes OOB after A touched it, then that is a separate play and a violation that occurred after the end of the throw-in. That's why the subsequent throw-in is always a spot throw-in. That's the logic used in the case book play |
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Thanks JR. I knew I read that somewhere. I just thought it was in only in those guidebooks our state gives us every year.
Peace
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Let us get into "Good Trouble." ----------------------------------------------------------- Charles Michael “Mick” Chambers (1947-2010) |
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Agreed, but as I already stated, there is another case play where the throw-in ends when the defensive player kicks the ball. In that case, end-line privileges are retained. The FED needs to clarify the wording in the rule by saying something about the privileges ending when the throw-in ends without it being ended by a defensive violation. Z |
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Here's what you need
From the 2001-2002 NFHS Rules Book (the year the retaining the end line rule change came in):
On the first couple of pages where the Rules Changes are always listed: "7-5-7 Permits a team to run the end line on a throw-in when the scoring team, immediately following a made basket or during the ensuing throw-in, commits either a violation or foul." Also, on page 72 in the Comments on the 2001-02 Rules Revisions: "Throw-in provision after a score (7-5-7): To prohibit the team that just scored from gaining an advantage, this change permits a team to run the end line on a throw-in when either a foul or violation is committed by the scoring team immediately following a made basket or on the ensuing throw-in. This change only applies when the spot for the throw-in would be at the end line." Z, This shows that those guys in your state that are allowing the running after a catch and foul are wrong, but it's not crystal clear on the immediate kick. I have always interpreted the first-touch is a kick play to be during the throw-in since it occurs right at the end of it, plus that is also the NCAA rule. [Edited by Nevadaref on Dec 20th, 2004 at 05:54 AM] |
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So, you are saying that if A1 fouls B1 after he catches the inbounds pass and the bonus is not in effect, then the ball would be put in play with a spot throw-in because the throw-in ended when B1 touched the ball before the foul?
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