Am doing a handout sheet for my league members, want to address some misunderstood rules, MAYBE if they read it they won't plead for a traveling call on every rebounded airball... or demand a whistle on an inadvertant foot touch of the ball... or (my favorite) argue that not all technical fouls are 2 shots, some are just 1.

Anyway a while back someone posted a great rundown on minunderstood rules, but I can't seem to find it -- can anyone re-post. I tried a search, but for whatever reason it said the administrator had disabled the search function.

clarification--
 

We are a hack Church league, we play High School rules.

http://www.officialforum.com/showthr...4&pagenumber=1


In google I typed, "site:www.officialforum.com misunderstood rules"

The summary is, "If you've seen it that way on TV, that's probably not how we do it here." Short and sweet.

Consider adding the idea that it is not travel to slide on the floor while holding a loose ball. I am typing quickly and I am sure that the wording needs work!

Rick

958 to go!

Any NCAA rules and interpretations in this post are irrelevant!

How will I know when it is my turn to be God? Do we all get a turn? Do I have to pass a floor test?

Violence!

The most misunderstood NF rules by coaches and parents are rules 1 - 10.

Most Misunderstood Basketball Rules
and 2004 Interpretations For High School Players, Coaches and Officials

Player Control VS Blocking Foul- know whether D had established “initial legal guarding position” (2 feet in bounds facing opponent) (he can then move with O, rise vertically or move back) if yes, call it a Player-Control Foul on the O. If the D had not established LGP, call the foul on D. D may turn or duck to absorb contact if has already established LGP. Generally if contact is on O head/shoulders= Player-Control Foul, if contact is on torso or legs= D blocking foul. PCF= no points & no free-throws (penalty is loss of ball- still mark the foul). No free-throws if foul committed by any O player while they have TEAM CONTROL.

Backboard- sides, top & bottom are all in play. The ball cannot pass over the top or touch bracketing.

Moving Screen- is a foul ONLY if contact occurs. If a Blind Screen is set on a stationary D, must be given 1 NORMAL STEP to avoid contact. If D is moving, is allowed 1-2 steps (based on speed).

Air-Balled Shot- shooter can retrieve an air-ball if Ref considers it a shot. Shot release ends
TEAM CONTROL.

Hand is Part of the Ball- the D can always legally contact the O hand if the hand is in contact with the ball. However, it is widely accepted that a foul shall be called on a shot.

3 Seconds in Lane Rule- is intended to not allow an O player to gain an advantage. Refs prefer to use verbal “preventatives”(clear/get out). If no advantage is gained, they will not be quick to call this.

Backcourt Violation- 10 seconds (of continuous team control) to obtain frontcourt status (all 3 points =2 feet & the ball). Ball can always be passed directly into backcourt on a throw-in. If O has ball in frontcourt, and ball is deflected into backcourt (once or several times), the O can only legally recover if the D was LAST to touch it in frontcourt. It is legal to retrieve ball in backcourt after a shot.

Goaltending/ Basket Interference- Cannot touch rim or ball if ON or IN rim. Slapping backboard is not goaltending (may be ignored if playing the ball) unless it vibrates the rim (possibly a T and count the basket). “Pinning” the ball on backboard is legal IF STILL on the way up and NOT in the imaginary cylinder. Hanging on the Rim- is only legal if (A) fouled or (B) to avoid injury to himself or another player. Otherwise=Technical Foul.

Sliding on the Floor- is legal if diving to secure a loose ball. Ok to slide until momentum stops. Once ball is secured on floor- cannot roll or attempt to get up unless dribble has been started- can pass, shoot or call timeout.

Free-Throw Rebounding Spots- 6 spots max (2 for O & 4 for D) (nobody in 4th space). Must wait until ball hits rim. D must be in bottom spot and no standing on block,

Throw-In Spot- thrower has 5 seconds to release ball- must have at least 1 foot ON or OVER the designated spot (3’ wide) (may move backwards) CAN MOVE 1 or BOTH FEET- ball must come directly onto the court. There is no imaginary plane for the O thrower, but the D cannot reach over (1X=delay of game, 2X=T). If D contacts the ball= Automatic T (no warning), if foul= intentional.

Coming Back Inbounds- trying to save ball, must come back at about same spot- can be first to touch ball. The “bat” to save ball from going out of bounds, is considered start of dribble. If secured and another dribble is started, will be considered a violation. Inbounds= SOMETHING IN & NOTHING OUT.


Most Misunderstood Basketball Rules continued

Calling Time-Out- The Coach may be granted a timeout request if his player is holding or dribbling the ball, so long as his players have TEAM CONTROL. A player saving the ball (in the air) can be granted a time-out request only if he has DEFINATE CONTROL.

Closely-Guarded- when D is within 6 feet of O (in possession of ball)(& aggressively guarding the ball) for 5 seconds (continuously). Up to 3 separate 5 second counts could occur (hold/dribble/hold). Count continues even if defenders switch!

Ball Stuck Between Rim & Backboard- is not a violation- go with Alternating Possession Arrow unless caused by inbound thrower, then it is a violation.

Traveling- must have control to start dribble and ball must be released before pivot foot moves. On a pass or shot, the pivot foot may be lifted, but may not return to the floor before the ball is released.

Palming (Carrying) the Ball- no height limitation on dribble- it’s a violation if while dribbling, the ball comes to rest or hand goes under ball.

Kicking- violation if an INTENTIONAL ACT. It is also illegal to hit the ball with a fist.

Fumble- it is always legal to recover a fumble or muff (even if dribble was terminated).

Technical Foul- will be assessed for profanity, unsporting acts & excessive complaints or abuse. T is 2 shots and then resume at “point of interruption”. 2T’s=EJECTION.

Disconcerting a Free-Throw Shooter- no opponent or bench personnel shall distract the free thrower.

Uniforms- jerseys and short strings must be tucked in and no player may participate while wearing jewelry or anything that might be deemed to cause an injury.

Elastic Clause- referee can make decisions on anything not specifically covered by the rules!

Flopping- do it and you could hurt your team. By rule, this is a Technical Foul.

To recap:
Coaches- are hired to instruct- not criticize. Players- are chosen to compete and hustle in a “sportsmanlike manner”- not question the Officials calls. Officials- are assigned to make judgment calls and are not required to explain them. Though, they may (& should) if approached in a respectful manner.

If your talking federation, shouldn't it be resume at division line across from the table with the team who shot the FT's getting the ball fro throw in?

A couple of differences/clarifications for NFHS rules.

*** Not true for NFHS

*** comment refers to a player dibbling. A pass could come from back court and bounce in front court - ending the 10 second count.

*** Not in NFHS. All throw-ins following a T are at the division line and by the opponent of the team to last receive the T. If the there are Ts by opponents and they offset, use the AP arrow to determine who inbounds the ball at the division line.

Rick --

Feeling a little giddy today?!?

LOL!

That was my first thought too.

Maybe he enjoyed the office <s>Christmas</s> <s>holidays</s> for-no-damn-reason-at-all party a bit to much.

:D

Feeling a little giddy today?!? [/QUOTE]

Perhaps a little, or I might just be suffering from "signature envy"! Have I committed an unsporting foul?

Rick

Perhaps a little, or I might just be suffering from "signature envy"! Have I committed an unsporting foul?

Rick [/QUOTE]

Not at all! I'm going to nominate you for a Slappy Award. Although I never seem to remember exactly which category of posts is covered, so you may not fit in quite.

Not at all! I'm going to nominate you for a Slappy Award. Although I never seem to remember exactly which category of posts is covered, so you may not fit in quite. [/QUOTE]Slappy's are awarded for the best, unique and funniest technical fouls that are handed out. The award is named after it's greatest practitioner- our very own Dan-ref, aka Slappy Dan.

Just a little history for the newbies. Tomorrow we'll tell you the story of how the "Chuckie" came into being.......
http://www.sodamnfunny.com/Picture/Animal/photo7.jpg
Yup, this is what the <b>Chuckie</b>statuette looks like, folks!

JR, is it a valuable lesson full of informative thoughts? Information that will make us better officials? If so, I am game, since my motivation for checking this forum is to become a better official.

Its not I was told last night by high school coaches that if you have control and slide it is a travel. i then told them that's not the rule and they told me I am the first person in 10 years who has called it that way... Unbelieveable!

Naw, it's just me having a l'il fun. If you don't like it, ignore it.

What really would be "unbelievable" would be if you really believed those coaches.

Standard Coachspeak #11- "That's the first time that I've ever seen that one called".:D

Okay, I won't nominate Rick for a Slappy then. Is there another award for best post of the week? Or most creative use of other people's material, or something?

By the way, I hope you pay royalties to the guy who took that photo of Chuck. He'll be a rich person before he dies.

Whoa! That picture's nuts!

Rick

What about 'em Rick?

Block/Charge - most people think the Defender has to be "set" but as long as the shoulders are square, he/she can be moving backwards and still draw a charge

Over and Back - The ball and both feet have to be "over" the half-court line before you can go "back." Therefore if you have one foot in the back court, you can move your other foot to the front court and back to the back court and it won't be over and back.

3-seconds - This count stops when the ball leaves the shooter's hands but the count is on when the ball is loose after last possessed by the offense in the front court.

Unfortunately, they're probably accurate in thier assertion that they've never seen it called that way. I see it called wrong more than I see it called right.

They can move any direction but, TOWARD the offensive player at the point of contact, and their shoulders DO NOT have to be squared. The defender may turn away and still take a PC foul.

The 3 points only apply to a dribble. If you catch a ball with a foot in the BC and one in the FC, you are in the BC, but when that foot that was in the BC leaves the floor, you DO have FC status.

Do you think that will be enough for the winter?

Rick

Who wants a copy?
 

I wrote the "Most Misunderstood Rules" sheet for new officials in San Diego's rec leagues about 15 years ago.

We now give the rec league captains a copy before each season and it has greatly reduced the whinibg about simple things like "retrieving your own airball" or moving your feet on a designated spot throwin.

I'm especially proud of the explanation of the legality of returning back inbounds after saving a loose ball. We tell them that they've got to return at approximately the same location where they left the court and "must have SOMETHING IN and NOTHING OUT!".

Send an email to [email protected] and I will forward
you a copy and you can use it as written, edit it, or do whatever.

Good luck.
Barry Alman
BOSS Officials
San Diego, CA 92110

I was at a tournament today watching a game where one team was pressing. The offensive team called timeout after eight seconds. A coach sitting nearby actually asked me "so do they get a new 10?" I kind of paused, gathered myself, and replied yes. A player sitting next to him, dumbfounded, said "REALLY?"

sigh
:rolleyes:

Re: Who wants a copy?
 

Barry, could you point out the rule to me that backs up your statement above that a player going OOB has to return at approximately the same location where he left? Please be specific, as I am not a rules expert like you and I am also not aware of the existence of any such language. I was under the impression that you had to return in-bounds immediately from where <b>your momentum</b> took you after you went OOB. You're saying that,if a player's momentum takes him 20 feet up a sideline trying to save a ball, then that player has to come back 20 feet and then come in-bounds where he originally went out. Wouldn't that be a "delay returning", and thus be a T under R10-3-3? Please let me know where I can find your interpretation in the rule book.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Dec 18th, 2004 at 08:19 AM]

Re: Who wants a copy?
 

I just went to your web site(below) and looked at your "Most Misunderstood Rules", Barry.
http://www.sdboss.com/rules.htm

I seem to be personally still misunderstanding about four(4) of your rules, not including the one I already asked about in another post. Maybe you can clear up my misunderstandings. I certainly would appreciate it.

(1) <b>"E"</b> -<i>"Palming is when the hand is under the ball..."</i>
-- In the definition of "palming" in R4-15-4(b), it says that the ball has to come to rest. Nowhere in the rules can I find anything that states that the hand being under the ball during a dribble is actually illegal. I did find that R4-15-2 states that <i>"During the dribble the ball may be batted into the air provided it is permitted to strike the floor before the ball is touched again with the hands"</i>. Can't you legally bat the ball into the air with your hand <b>under</b> it, as you wrote in "E"?

(2) <b>"G"</b> - "Cannot touch the ball <b>or rim</b> if the ball is on the rim or <b>in the imaginary cylinder</b>".
-- Could you point out the rule to me that states that it is Basket Interference if a player touches the rim while the ball is in the cylinder above it? I was under the impression(probably mistakenly) that it was only a violation to touch the rim when the ball was on or within the basket, and that it's not a violation to touch the rim when the ball is above the basket in the cylinder. Rule 4-6-1 seems to be saying the same thing. Could you please clear up this misunderstanding for me also?

(3) <b>"M"</b> - "The coach may call a timeout if the ball is in his team's possession or ball dead".
-- Doesn't a team also have possession during a pass, fumble, interrupted dribble, etc.? Rule 4-12-2 seems to state that. And Rule 5-8-3(a) states that you can only grant the time-out if the ball is in the control or at the disposal of a <b>player</b>. Please let me know where I can find the rule that allows an official to grant a time-out during all team possessions such as passes too.

(4) <b>"W"</b> - "It is legal to hang on the rim if fouled".
-- Please help me out on this one too, and let me know where I can find this in the rules. The only rule that I am aware of that is pertinent is R10-3-4EXCEPTION, and that states that the only exempt act is if you hang on the rim to "prevent injury". I was not aware that a defender could foul a player as soon as he started the act of shooting, and the player could then complete the "shooting" act- including an airborne shooter- and hang on the rim legally.

I certainly appreciate your straightening out of these "misunderstood rules" for me, Barry. I certainly misunderstand them and I'm always willing to learn.

This printout is a guide for ...
 

The printout of Most Misunderstood Rules was meant to
be a guide for novice recreational officials and seems to work well with adult rec league players.

Just as any rulebook usually is concise and doesn't cover every situation, so is this handout.

I tried to be as direct and accurate as possible, while keeping the interpretations on ONE PAGE.

Regarding the rules that you are disputing, I can only say that I have been to more than a few rules interpretation sessions of West Coast collegiate officials in the mid 1980s
and several issues were discussed that the rulebook failed to clarify.

One was the issue of coming back inbounds and it was stated by interpreters that the player would be gaining an advantage if coming back in at any spot other than where he/she left the court.

I hope you understand that I am not implying that my handout is perfect. I do defend it as it has acted as a fair quick-reference for players and coaches (and officials) who argue about misconceptions.

I try to have everyone understand that the rulebook is a foundationfromwhich we make our decisions. I also try to explain the "spirit & intent" of many rules.

This sheet is not all encompassing and may not fully explain things to your liking, but it is easier that giving a rulebook, illustration book, and caseplay book to everyone that might need a little more rules education.

Let me get this straight, Barry. Are you trying to tell me that the <b>rules</b> that I questioned above, as defined and posted on your web site by yourself, aren't actually clarified anywhere in the actual rule book or case book? I politely beg to differ. I would also like to politely point out to you that I have already cited the actual rule numbers above that seem to directly contradict your version of them.

The bottom line is that <b>I'm</b> not disputing the accuracy of <b>your</b> rules, but unfortunately it seems that the actual rule book does seem to be disputing <b>your</b> version of the rules and their accuracy. The actual rule book seems to be saying that <b>your</b> posted rules on your web site that I referred to above are wrong.

Btw, I politely agree with the official rule book, but I'm also quite willing to listen if you would like to point out why the cited rules aren't germane and relevant.

it is not travelling to slide on the floor while holding a loose ball?
 

then what is it?? If you have control, (ie holding a loose ball), then it is not a loose ball. Possession means you can either pass it, dribble it, or shoot it. If you have control of the ball and are sliding along the floor, it is most certainly a travel.

Re: it is not travelling to slide on the floor while holding a loose ball?
 

If the slide is caused by the momentum required to secure the ball, then it's a legal play. If the player is adding momentum (rolling, pushing with the legs, etc.), then it's travelling.

Re: Re: it is not travelling to slide on the floor while holding a loose ball?
 

Also, if you're on your feet, and you slide with possession, it IS a travel. On your bottom, back or stomach to slide with possession is NOT a travel.

"fumble dribble fumble" not "dribble fumble dribble"

short & sweet all om ome page
 

Fellow officials: please know that this page of misunderstood rules was condensed so as to be as efficient (and complete) as possible all on ONE PAGE of a handount.

Re: sliding on the floor.

My intent was to refer to the type of play where a player dives to go get a loose ball and then happens to slide
on the floor. The player never had control of the ball prior to his leaving his feet.
IMO that player is legal to slide until his actual momentum
is ended. At that point, no more movement is legal except to pivot on whatever part of the body that is on the floor,
which is usually his lower back side.
The player could not roll over or try to stand up.
Their options are: call TO, start a dribble, or pass, or shoot.

And BTW I must admit to not being absolutely correct with the 4 interpretations list by JR in his former posting.
I stand corrected and will re-write those soon, to be more precise.

To whomever received a copy from me, please edit these so
as not to confuse anyone who reads them in the future.

I'm always learning and have never professed to be purfekt.

Re: short & sweet all om ome page
 

I'm not sure that even pivoting on "the body part in contact with the floor" is legal. Haven't we discussed this befre? I'm no good at the Google search for this board. I think the thread was titled, " Something Something Pivot Cheek".

Barry, as I told a coach last night, it takes a big man to admit he's wrong. Even when it's worded "not...absolutely correct" it's a very powerful admission, and buys you a lot of credibility. It also helps your refs improve, when they see that it's not an ego thing to get the rules right, it's just an important part of the job.