T on a Deaf Coach

[SMEngmann]

I had a VB game featuring a school for the deaf visiting another team. The coach was also deaf and had trouble speaking clearly. Close game in the 3rd quarter, I call a foul. Coach obviously wants to address me and signals for a time-out. I grant the TO and am willing to listen. He comes out, starts waving his arms demonstrably and basically yelling at me. I can't understand what he's saying but I hear the word "see" and the word "blind" somewhat clearly, and the coach covered his eyes with his hands. I call him for a technical foul. I write down my explanation and he said he was trying to say, "How can you see that from behind." I didn't buy it and the gyrations included with the confrontational approach, plus the hand signal to block the eyes got him the T.

My question, what, if any penalty would you assess here, and if anyone else has dealt with a deaf school before, how'd you handle the communication?

[ref18]

Your T on the coach sounds justified. I hope I'm never put in a situation like that.

OK, this doesn't really apply to a deafness situation, but I T'd up a coach, and when he refused to sit down he cited the reason that he suffered an injury to his tailbone and is unable to sit for long periods of time.

Now I agreed to let him stand and told him that if he mentioned another word about the quality of officiating I'd toss him, and he was quiet for the rest of the game.

Would you have let him stand??

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by SMEngmann
I had a VB game featuring a school for the deaf visiting another team. The coach was also deaf and had trouble speaking clearly. Close game in the 3rd quarter, I call a foul. Coach obviously wants to address me and signals for a time-out. I grant the TO and am willing to listen. He comes out, starts waving his arms demonstrably and basically yelling at me. I can't understand what he's saying but I hear the word "see" and the word "blind" somewhat clearly, and the coach covered his eyes with his hands. I call him for a technical foul. I write down my explanation and he said he was trying to say, "How can you see that from behind." I didn't buy it and the gyrations included with the confrontational approach, plus the hand signal to block the eyes got him the T.

My question, what, if any penalty would you assess here, and if anyone else has dealt with a deaf school before, how'd you handle the communication?

I've done several games with a deaf school's team, including one time where both teams were deaf. The table personnel was deaf, as well. It was a great experience because I really had to focus on my signals and reporting.

To your question, there is usually someone at the game that can interpret for you and sign for the coach, and I'd recommend going that route whenever something like that comes up.

It is possible that the coach was frustrated not only about the call in question, but also about not being able to express it so that you could understand.

[SMEngmann]

Very true, blindzebra, but there was no interpreter there. I allowed the coach more leeway than I would ordinarily because I felt he had no other way to communicate with anyone. That's why I allowed him to write notes. He could not speak clearly at all, to the point where he couldn't even say "timeout" clearly enough for us to understand him.

Even after the T, he started pushing it a little bit with his notes, but he wasn't a distraction, and I'm not the guy to be looking for a 2nd T. But the line of communication was very hard to deal with.

[Nevadaref]

When I was in DC I worked games at the Model HS and Gallaudet. I never had a problem as bad as yours, but I did get some clear disagreement with calls. I found that the deaf kids were very expressive and emotional.
What puzzled me at first was how they knew to stop on the whistle, if they couldn't hear it. I learned that many of them were not completely deaf and others could detect the vibrations from the blast.

[joseph2493]

Originally posted by SMEngmann
I had a VB game featuring a school for the deaf visiting another team. The coach was also deaf and had trouble speaking clearly. Close game in the 3rd quarter, I call a foul. Coach obviously wants to address me and signals for a time-out. I grant the TO and am willing to listen. He comes out, starts waving his arms demonstrably and basically yelling at me. I can't understand what he's saying but I hear the word "see" and the word "blind" somewhat clearly, and the coach covered his eyes with his hands. I call him for a technical foul. I write down my explanation and he said he was trying to say, "How can you see that from behind." I didn't buy it and the gyrations included with the confrontational approach, plus the hand signal to block the eyes got him the T.

My question, what, if any penalty would you assess here, and if anyone else has dealt with a deaf school before, how'd you handle the communication?

I had a tournament this past weekend where we had nothing but deaf schools.

Of course we had interpreters, but you can tell to a point what they are saying.

I "T" up a coach and a player this weekend, the player was for trying to hit another player, but the coach was for the way he was "addressing" me and my partner.

He was deaf as well, therefore not being able to speak well. He had signaled for me to come over there, much like yours did, the other team had called time out. When I got there he started "screaming" stomping his foot. I tryed to get him to calm down which he didn't, so I gave him what he wanted. I later got the oppurtunity to ask what he had said with his hand, and let's just say he deserved more than the "T".

[ChrisSportsFan]

In my game this past Tuesday, before the Capt mtg, home team coach came over and showed me why he had a microphone attached to his collar because he has a deaf kid (who BTW is an excellent point guard). Sometimes the kid doesn't hear the whistle and so coach hits a button and it goes off on the kids hearing aid and he stops playing. He had a letter from the state office so everything was fine. Kinda neat, he hit the button during warmups and the kid immediately came sprinting over. He wishes all his kids would do same.

Originally posted by ref18
Your T on the coach sounds justified. I hope I'm never put in a situation like that.

OK, this doesn't really apply to a deafness situation, but I T'd up a coach, and when he refused to sit down he cited the reason that he suffAered an injury to his tailbone and is unable to sit for long periods of time.

Now I agreed to let him stand and told him that if he mentioned another word about the quality of officiating I'd toss him, and he was quiet for the rest of the game.

Would you have let him stand??

Last Year AA Girls OFSAA there was a team with an assistant coach who couldn't sit (same reason). This was explained to our evaluators and our evaluators said he could stand provided we didn't hear anything from him (as he was the asst. coach). I had no problems in my games (I think I had them twice in the tournament).

Basically if it is for some legitamite reason - and I think Tailbone injury is one of the only legitamite reasons - you can allow them to stand.

For you it was the head coach - in that case with a T give him a very small standing box (don't allow him to wander). Just tell him - sure I'll allow you to stand but it must be in front of this chair.

[Edited by cingram on Dec 15th, 2004 at 10:06 AM]

[ref18]

I just asked this guy to take a spot in behind the bench if he chose to stand. He was pretty good about it.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by ref18
Your T on the coach sounds justified. I hope I'm never put in a situation like that.

OK, this doesn't really apply to a deafness situation, but I T'd up a coach, and when he refused to sit down he cited the reason that he suffered an injury to his tailbone and is unable to sit for long periods of time.

Now I agreed to let him stand and told him that if he mentioned another word about the quality of officiating I'd toss him, and he was quiet for the rest of the game.

Would you have let him stand??

I'd let him stand. I'd then tell him that he needs to remind the officials before the game starts about his condition. He should also tell his governing body, and the officiating governing body should also know and inform the membership.

I know it sounds like alot, but let me tell you this: if I'm a coach and in a position where I have to stand to not endure unnecessary pain, I'm still going to stand even after a technical foul. So, the issue becomes nipping it in the bud, and that means all the marbles on the table before hand.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by JugglingReferee
nip it in the bud

Thanks, Deputy Fife! (If Dan has a couple minutes later, I'm sure we'll get a picture.)

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by JugglingReferee
[/B]

I'd let him stand. I'd then tell him that he needs to remind the officials before the game starts about his condition. He should also tell his governing body, and the officiating governing body should also know and inform the membership.

I know it sounds like alot, but let me tell you this: if I'm a coach and in a position where I have to stand to not endure unnecessary pain, I'm still going to stand even after a technical foul. So, the issue becomes nipping it in the bud, and that means all the marbles on the table before hand. [/B][/QUOTE]The obvious solution to all this is to tell the coach that he has to get, and carry with him, a letter of approval from his governing body. There's no way he should be doing this for any extended period of time without one. There's also really no excuse for him not carrying a letter from his doctor with him either. Somewhere along the line, someone in his area shoulda told him that he had to provide one or the other if he wanted to remain standing. Jmo.

[Dudly]

Originally posted by ref18

Now I agreed to let him stand and told him that if he mentioned another word about the quality of officiating I'd toss him, and he was quiet for the rest of the game.

Was he standing the entire time before the T?

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Thanks, Deputy Fife! (If Dan has a couple minutes later, I'm sure we'll get a picture.)

I don't want to ever say anything where the reply directly to me is the picture of "that squirrel". Let's hope he doesn't post that picture!

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

I'd let him stand. I'd then tell him that he needs to remind the officials before the game starts about his condition. He should also tell his governing body, and the officiating governing body should also know and inform the membership.

I know it sounds like alot, but let me tell you this: if I'm a coach and in a position where I have to stand to not endure unnecessary pain, I'm still going to stand even after a technical foul. So, the issue becomes nipping it in the bud, and that means all the marbles on the table before hand. [/B]

The obvious solution to all this is to tell the coach that he has to get, and carry with him, a letter of approval from his governing body. There's no way he should be doing this for any extended period of time without one. There's also really no excuse for him not carrying a letter from his doctor with him either. Somewhere along the line, someone in his area shoulda told him that he had to provide one or the other if he wanted to remain standing. Jmo. [/B][/QUOTE]

Agreed.

That body to tell him to bring a note is the state or provincial body, not me. Myself, I'm not going to penalize him if my parent organization didn't do their job, whether they knew about the sitch or not.

I like the idea of having the coach stand behind the bench.

I worked a game at W-O where a guy nicknamed Copper did exactly that - let a coach stand the entire game due to back pain, but behind the bench.