"Indirect" Shooting Foul?

[rfp]

Theoretical situation:

Player A1 comes off a screen set by A2 and goes up for the shot. Defensive player B1 attempting to defend the shot charges through A2, fouling him. The force of the impact causes A2 to knock into A1, effectively causing A2 to "foul" A1 on the shot. What kind of foul do you have on B1? Any way to characterize this as a shooting foul?

[Ref in PA]

B1 fouled A2, not A1. You have a common foul on B1. That A2 disrupted A1 shot attempt is incidental.

[IREFU2]

I would just call the push on B1 and the play would be dead, unless it happened all simatanioulsy. Then I "guess" the basket would count and team A will get the ball out of bounds at the spot of the foul or shot if they are in the bonus.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by IREFU2
I would just call the push on B1 and the play would be dead, unless it happened all simatanioulsy.

Continuous motion applies.

[mick]

The force required to displace A2 into A1 may be considered more than a common foul.
mick

[Adam]

I agree with Mick. Without seeing the play, I'm thinking this could be a classic example of an intentional foul based merely on the severity of contact.

[David M]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

Continuous motion applies.

Bob,

Would the ball have to out of the shooter's hands?

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by David M

Bob,

Would the ball have to out of the shooter's hands?

No, David. That's exactly Bob's point. Once A1 has started the shooting motion s/he is allowed to finish and release the shot if the defense commits a foul. Read up on 4-11 for the full details.

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by David M

Bob,

Would the ball have to out of the shooter's hands?

Not on a foul by the defense on ANY offensive player once the shooting motion has began.

Now if A2 picks off B1 on an illegal screen, the ball becomes dead UNLESS it has left the shooter's hands.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by blindzebra
Not on a foul by the defense on ANY offensive player once the shooting motion has began.

Why not? Were you thinking that there is no offense or defense b/c team control has ended? If that's what you meant, then team control only ends when the try is released, not when the shooting motion starts.

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

Why not? Were you thinking that there is no offense or defense b/c team control has ended? If that's what you meant, then team control only ends when the try is released, not when the shooting motion starts.

That is the rule Chuck, what don't you get?

Continuous motion applies to any foul on the defense and not just a foul on the shooter.

The post I replied to asked if the ball NEEDED to be released if B1 fouls A2, when A1 is the shooter, for the shot to count.

[ChuckElias]

I'm having trouble deciphering your posts, but I think I understand now. You're making the point that continuous motion applies not only when the shooter is fouled, but also when any teammate of the shooter is fouled. Am I right? I simply didn't understand the way you said it the first time.

[blindzebra]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
I'm having trouble deciphering your posts, but I think I understand now. You're making the point that continuous motion applies not only when the shooter is fouled, but also when any teammate of the shooter is fouled. Am I right? I simply didn't understand the way you said it the first time.

I did not think it was vague.

The question was, "Did the shot need to be gone before the foul?"

I answered, "No, not on a foul by the defense on ANY offensive player, once the shooting motion began.

If A1 starts their motion to shoot, any foul committed by B on A1, A2, A3, A4, or A5 does not cause the ball to become dead, and a made basket would count. A foul against A1 is a shooting foul. A foul against A2-5 is a common foul with either ball to A at the spot closest the foul or bonus free throws.

A foul by any A player causes the ball to become dead, unless the shot has already been released, except for a foul committed by airborne A1 which would also cause a released ball to become dead.

Better?

[David M]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

No, David. That's exactly Bob's point. Once A1 has started the shooting motion s/he is allowed to finish and release the shot if the defense commits a foul. Read up on 4-11 for the full details.

Chuck, Thanks for your answer. Watching the Florida vs Louisville game on Saturday. Florida player A1 going in for a uncontested layup with A2 standing in the lane. While A1 started his motion to shoot (had not released the ball) B1 pushed A2. Ref called basket good and Florida shot 1 and 1.