This coach should've been booted

[OPTIPLEX2001]

Our school is hosting the youth tournament this year. Team A coach gets a technical from the lady referee (the lady is rather small). She goes over and tells him to sit down. The coach (easily 350 pounds), gets into her face and tells her she better speak to him with manners. She goes, "Coach, I am, now SIT, or your out of here." Her partner comes over, (doesn't really do anything). She reports the technical.

I was doing the official bookkeeping. I am highly respected at my school for what I do, and people are often coming to me if there's problems. I wish I would of thrown him out myself.

The thing is, shouldn't he of been kicked instantly for not doing it? I regret not giving him the heave-ho myself.

Matthew

[Hawks Coach]

Could have been booted, but it sounds like the ref handled it well. I like the idea of keeping things under control without booting the coach, boot if they really beg for it. This guy was beginning to ask for it, but obviously didn't quite get there.

[BktBallRef]

Sorry Matthew but you don't have any authority to boot him out. We do everything we can to keep from ejecting anyone. When it happens, it should be because they gave us no choice.

[OPTIPLEX2001]

Actually, I do. And if he won't do it, I have a man behind me, and a uniformed police officer.

Matthew

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by OPTIPLEX2001
Actually, I do. And if he won't do it, I have a man behind me, and a uniformed police officer.

Matthew

You have a lot of growing up to do young man.

[Hawks Coach]

Matthew

Let me try this another way. NF gives the ref the authority to issue the second T and eject the coach. Game management may have to step in and assist the ref, even have security move a coach out. But the rules do not give the scorer or game management the authority to make the decision that a coach is ejected. At all levels of basketball, NF and above, the floor officials make the decisions regarding participants, the off-floor officials (scorrer and timer) help the floor officials to keep track of the game, while game management controls fan behavior (and ejects fans) and, where necessary, enforces ejections.

Now I see from your post that you are dealing with a youth league. I also know that many youth leagues allow gym supervisors and other officials to act in capacities that go beyond what NF allows. In my opinion, those provisions are there because frequently you also do not have NF registered refs, you are not playing NF rules, and these leagues allow roles to become muddied.

Since you are a frequent visitor to this board, you should recognize that NF has carefully defined the roles of officials (both on-court and off-court). When you find yourself in situations in which the roles are not so clearly defined, remember what has been defined elsewhere. If you have been given a power that does not exist in NF, I would count to 10 before I ever used it. And then to 10 again for good measure. These kinds of powers should not be used in an immediate emotional reaction to an incident.

The situation you cited did not call for second T and an ejection in the mind of the official. From what I read, I would agree, although this guy was getting close to the line. The official handled the situation and the game continued, and thats a good thing. Had you intervened and ejected the guy, all kinds of problems would probably have resulted. You would find yourself defending a decision to eject someone that the official directly involved did not see fit to eject. You don't know that the official would even have backed you, either on the spot (imagine the chaos then!) or in any kind of post-game discussion of the incident. You would have undermined the authority of your floor officials in front of both teams. None of these are good results. It sounds to me like what did happen was a good result. Reflect on this incident and learn from it.

[Edited by Hawks Coach on Feb 11th, 2001 at 08:47 AM]

[BktBallRef]

Good post, Coach.

[OPTIPLEX2001]

I understand what you are saying (BTW, I am a Hawk, so every time I see your name, I think of our coach ). I am, I suppose, "Game Management." I have a lot of authority at our school. True, I probably shouldn't throw him out, but when he gets that personal to a referee, I feel I should step in. This coach was HIGHLY out of line. There were two technicals against his team early in the first quarter (1 on a player, 1 on a coach). He was being highly un-sporstman like, and did not deserve to be called a coach. BTW, let me give you a more clear definition of what I would of done. Keep in mind, the scorer's booth was to the right of the coach, so I was about 3 feet away:

Coach gets in to the Ref's face:

Me: "Coach, you have two options. Sit down, or get out."

If he didn't get out...

"Coach, I'm going to find the police officer and have you escorted out."

If he did...

"You need to sit the rest of the game."

Matthew

[moose69]

If the officiating crew didn't think that it was personal enough to whack the coach a 2nd time, i don't see how the official scorer can take advnatage of these "phantom powers" and eject the offender.
I think that would have just been asking for more, unessecary trouble.

[Hawks Coach]

Matthew
Two questions.

Were you associated in any way with either team competing in this contest when this occurred?

What made you think that you needed to step in for the referee in this situation?

[Brian Watson]

The reason we are hired to arbitrate contests is because we (should) have an exceptional ability to fairly referee the contest, but also be able to mange the game. Game management is a huge part of this job, one that I am proud of, and one that should not be interfered with. If the official did not feel the need to drop a second T, NO ONE, except that coaches AD, or possibly in this case a league administrator has the right or obligation to remove the coach. And, if they do remove that person they had better be ready to take over the team. Personally, and I am not saying this to be arrogant, if someone other than an AD or League Admin tried to remove the coach, I would have that person removed.

[Bart Tyson]

Would you have viewed this different if the official was a man, 6' tall, 200 pounds? I think you would be doing the official a dis-service. She took care of business. She has limits like the rest of us. When the coach goes beyond her limits then she either takes care of business or she learns from it.

[donfowler]

Let me add my two bits. At no time does a scorer, timer, or anyone involved in game management have the authority to decide matters on the court or with the bench. Only after the officials request game management assistance can things take place.
The job of scorers is to make sure everything is recorded in the book correctly. Timers are to insure that clock is correct.
Scorers and timers have responsibilities to assist the officials. They do not make decisions. They should not offer their opinion unless requested to do so (as stated in the rule book)
Everyone has a primary area. And they should stay in it to have a good game.

[Rookie]

I hate to be rude here, but Matthew has once again displayed his mindset to ignore the rules and do what he feels is right. Matthew, I know you are young, but you do have alot to learn.

First, don't ever assume a ref can't handle their business, because if they can't they wouldn't be out there.

Second,

True, I probably shouldn't throw him out, but when he gets that personal to a referee, I feel I should step in

There is no room for feelings in officiating, you either can or can't. It is of my opinion you don't have this authority.

Finally, if you don't think the coach is going to mind a female, what makes you think the coach would pay any attention to a 13 year old? I also wonder if the uniformed person would abide your commmand.

[winston robinson]

I agree with your displeasure with the coach but, that's the way it goes sometimes in our profession. However, it is the crews responsibity to handle and manage disgruntle coaches. The officials stature shouldn't really matter. It sounds as if her partner should have stepped in and got her away from him (switch positions) after she reported the 'T', then if he continues to be an idiot her partner should issue the second 'T' and toss him. That's why PRE-GAME CONFERENCES are so important in any game !!!