In another thread, Smitty told of an unpleasant encounter with a varsity coach during a JV game. The varsity coach was being obnoxious and inflammatory from the stands. Since the Var coach was not on the team bench, Smitty was uncertain how to handle the vituperation. Several of us here on the baord recommended that Smitty should get the game management to toss the Var coach who was acting like a jerk. In the end, Smitty was told to ignore the coach but report the behavior to the assignor, who dealt with the coach through the AD.

It reminded me of a similar situation here in Smitty's home locale where a ref actually did toss a fanboy coach. Here's the summary. JV girls game -- best girls program in three states is the home team playing against someone else (who it was doesn't matter). This ref is a real problem around here. He is overly officious, has a quick temper, and talks too much.

So as this game goes on, the varsity coach who was sitting in the stands lost his cool and started yelling at the ref. Ref claims coach came down out of the stands and onto the floor to yell at him, other witnesses disagree. Ref T'd him and tossed him.

But here comes the juicy part -- the ref insisted that this coach couldn't come back into the gym to coach the varsity game. He said that once someone is tossed, they're out for the evening, and can't come back in for any reason. Varsity coach used a friend's cell phone (standing outside on the sidewalk in front of his own gym!!) called the assignor and talked to him about it. The assignor called the ref and told him to let the coach coach.

This story made the paper because this is one of the biggest hs girls' coaches in the country, and has made a hugely successful in his little suburb.

In Smitty's thread about his situation, someone responded that Smitty should toss the Var coach from the stands (remember this is druing the JV game, so coach is just a spectator), and then the Varsity game would be nice and quiet since that coach wouldn't be there. What is the rule here? In the sitch I described, the assignor (who has been on the Fed rules committee any number of years and knows the rules inside and out) says the Var coach can come back in and do the var game.

Is there any rule about this?

Without haveing my books handy to look at, i understand that if Varsity Coach was on the bench during JV game and got run, he also has to sit out the next JV game but his getting run has nothing to do with the Varsity game and he can coach it. I know that tossing a fan is different. I've had to enlist in game managements help and simply asked him to sit by the unruly fan and maybe have a little discussion. The fan piped down and we finished the game peacefully. This might have been an option for Smitty.

I believe the only penalty defined in the book that extend beyond the game in question is for fighting. Because what happens to the coach in this case is not defined by the rule book it is outside of the floor official's jurisdiction to decide what, if any, additional penalty will be on the coach who gets tossed as a fan.

IOO when the buzzer goes off you buzz off.

...you know, you really shouldn't be talking about Mr. Padgett that way rainmaker. ;)

It's different in IL (might be that way in your state). But if a V coach is on the bench and he get tossed. He cannot coach any games until he has sit out at least 1 JV game or 10 days.

The rules question is whether that applies to a coach who's not on the bench, but in the stands.

Wow...you nailed vituperation but missed on board. :D

Sorry, just struct me as funny

I think this is all handled at the state association level, with regard to suspensions. I've not read anything in the book to tell me that there are any NFHS penalties beyond the game at hand.
I know in Iowa, if he were considered to be on the JV bench and he got run, he'd have to sit out all games until he missed the next JV game. If there are no more JV games left this year, he doesn't get to coach until next year.
Personally, if I run a guy in one game as a fan, and he's coaching in the next; now I get to deal with him as a coach. That's much easier than dealing with him as a fan. I'm okay with that.

So what are you going to do tjonesy, as an official, when the V coach shows up to coach the Varsity game?
(after being ejected from the bench in the previous JV game)

[Edited by RookieDude on Dec 9th, 2004 at 01:34 PM]

This is similar to a player playing 3 quarters in the JV game and then playing 2 quarters in the varsity game. Not our problem. We ref the players and coaches who show up and then let the state take care of any eligibility issues of those who played or coached in the game.

So the ref in the original post made two dumb mistakes. One, he tossed the coach in the stands rather than having game management handle it. Two, he overstepped his bounds by determining who was eligible to coach.

Z

How is this enforced? Do you file a report to the state office?

Juulie,

And I had the unfortunate experience of working a JV game with him last season....he hasn't mellowed any. Catch me at a meeting sometime & I'll tell you the story.....

Everybody's got a story about working with him. The sad thing is, he doesn't understand why his schedule is so poor. He thinks he's all that and a bag of chips, and thinks it's his religion that makes people prejudice against him. I'll tell you who I feel most sorry for is his wife. I can't imagine, uh...living ... yea, let's say living... with that guy.

Wow, this is lot of words.
 

I'm one of those that said toss him.

But understand, he wasn't coaching. He was a fan during the poor behavior. And as a fan, he was likely allowed more leniency than a 'regular' fan because he was also recognized as being a coach.

If you kick a fan out, I think it is generally accepted that they are gone for the evening. End of punishment. But of course this is enforced by game/facility management - they will likely be willing to let the 'coach' back in to next the game.

Kick out a coach different story. Here are the rules from backwoods Idaho (with pieces missing) for ejection of a coach. You can see them in their entirety at: http://idhsaa.org/rulesregs/home.asp under General Rules and Regulations, Section 4-3.

Here are the high points:
In any athletic contest, ... any coach ... ejected by an official for unsportsmanlike behavior will be suspended for the remainder of the Contest ... and, will be suspended for the next regularly scheduled contest at that level of competition and all other games/meets/matches in the interim at any level of competition. ...

The responsibility of enforcing the penalty for being suspended is with the school principal. Any dialogue concerning the suspension should come from the school principal and be directed to the President of the District Board of Control.

...The game official that disqualifies an individual for an unsportsmanship-like act must notify the District Commissioner with a written report by the conclusion of the next day. The District Commissioner, upon receipt of the report, shall notify the District Secretary, President of the District Board of Control, the school, and the IHSAA with a written report of the incident by the conclusion of the next school day.
When an individual is suspended for the next contest under Rule 4-3, the interpretation of contest is referred to as the following: ...

Basketball: next game

4-4 If a coach is ejected from an IHSAA contest, the designated school administrator must appoint an appropriately qualified adult to supervise the remainder of the contest or forfeit the contest.

Of course none of this paperwork stuff is done for ejection of a fan. In the case cited by Juulie, the fan/coach calls the Commissioner; Commissioner tells the official to stand down; fan re-enters the contest now as a coach.

In my opinion, it's got to be pretty bad stuff to eject the fan/coach. But two fans, all alone in the stands on one side of the court; standing, pointing, and yelling at an official would be impossible to ignore, and again in my opinion meets the definition of "pretty bad stuff."

Whether he stays out for the next game... I don't know. I personally wouldn't stick around to find out and I sure wouldn't be enforcing anything. Perhaps the game management would feel the same way as did the official and keep the coach out in the cold. Perhaps not.

That kinda <b>struck</b> me as funny too. :D

:o Darn...that is what I get for typing and talking on the phone at the same time.

Hmmm...did this guy used to come across the river and do some Community and small college stuff??? Does he still do some Community College stuff in Oregon? Just wondering if I might have any stories about him, too???

Re: Wow, this is lot of words.
 

WOW! Tony wins the Rut award for longest post of the day!

Is this a conversation better had by email and not on a public discussion board?

I'm not trying to be stuffy, preachy, or picky. And I'm not about to tell two long-standing members of this board what to do. But this strikes me as being borderline unprofessional.

We've all had threads where we complained about an unnamed partner from hell - but when we start getting into large, personal discussions about a specific individual, I dunno...

Just my $0.02, thrown in with the utmost respect.

Yes, to the IHSA and the school, within 24 hours.

If the coach participates, the games will (likely) be forfeited.

Re: Re: Wow, this is lot of words.
 

Naw, it made sense. We gotta give Tony the Mark T. DeNucci Sr. Award instead. :D

Re: Re: Re: Wow, this is lot of words.
 

How about the "Rutnucci Award"?

In IL, he's gone. Once anyone is removed from the stands they can not come back again that night. Some schools even have a policy (in my area anyways) that if you are kicked out of ANY sport, you can not attend another sporting event for the rest of the school year.

I doubt it. I don't know if he's even ever worked varsity yet. I'll e-mail you juicy details.

Rutnucci here
 

Well almost half of what I posted was cut and pasted from another website.

And I didn't bring up any of those emotional, I forgot to think topics like equal-opportunity, discrimination, and stuff... yeah and stuff. Blah, blah, blah

Man, it is difficult to be politically correct and not at the same time. So one could say I'm not overly witty either.

I'm not worthy, I'm not worthy .... just wordy. :D

This probably isn't an award I should write home about is it?

Contentment/serenity/silence/tranquility
and other words that absolutely do not fit with the content of my note.

Party-on, you butts.
http://instagiber.net/smiliesdotcom/...weetz/moon.gif

Tossing the Fanboy Coach
 

I was doing a Girls Jv game last year and the varsity coach was sitting at the end of the front row down from the team bench.The game was close and he was cheering me and my partner on in the first half.At a time out he walks over to the huddle and helps coach.So at halftime as we are walking out I told th A.D. that he either sits on the team bench and cheers me or in the stands that hes not going to do both.Second half never heared the first word from him.

If he's in the stands, he's not a coach. (contrary to some parents who like to coach from the stands)

In Indiana if the Varsity coach gets tossed in a JV game he CANNOT coach the Varsity game. The state put that in their by-laws and it is the place of the host school or game management to handle that situation. It is then written up and sent to the state office and they handle it fromt here.

We always maintain professionalism to include that while sitting in the stands watching a game we are to not make comments on the officiating, and for that matter, the coaching or playing.

Is it unreasonable to think that other adults, known as coaches, could also have a professional approach that includes not commenting on other teams' players, coaches, and the officials in the game that they're watching?

I should hope not: it is not unreasonable. After all, these are people who are shaping the behavior of the kids playing the game. Just as a game is not about the officials, it is not about the coaches either.

Mr. Fanboy should feel that he has compromised his personal integrity and lowered his stock with actions such as being kicked out of a game. Even if he has built an amazing program that is the best across 3 states.

If he's in the stands, he is not a coach: he is a fan. He is still not above the game. If he acts in a manner in which ejection is deemed necessary, then the ejection is necessary. I don't care if he is Lenny Wilkens or Phil Jackson.

After the jurisdiction of the officials is over (either leaving the visual confines of the playing area, or further as dictated by state or local tournament adoption) I fail to see how that person can be denied entry into the gym again, whether to watch or coach.

Do the JV officials have the right to tell the V crew that Mr. Fanboy was ejected in the JV game? Of course they do.

If a rule exists that precludes Mr. Fanboy from coaching in that next game, can the V crew decide to not allow him to coach in that game, based on the information provided by the JV crew? Of course, and they should enforce that rule.

It's a rather easy scenario to administer.

Exactly my point. It sounds as if the host school or game management handles it in Indiana, similar to here in Washington.. not the officials. I don't see how this is any different than a kid who played 3 quarters of JV and plays 2 quarters of varsity. We aren't A.D.'s or principals and we don't determine who is eligible and who isn't.

Z