Last night I was working a boy's JV game. Home fans were all in the stands on table side. A couple fans for the visitors were in the stands opposite the table, and the visiting Varsity coach and his assistant were sitting by themselves about midway up on the far end of the stands (opposite the visitor's bench). The entire first half, the visitor's varsity coaches are riding my partner and me loudly. They got on us every time we were on that end of the court. They were relentless and very loud, but we managed to ignore them. Keep in mind the home team went up by about 20 quickly and it stayed that way the entire game. Fouls in the first half were 13 for home and 7 for visitors. The game was not clean, but the home team was clearly the better skilled and more aggressive team. Home JV coach was vocal but respectful. Visitor's JV coach said nothing to us the entire game, coached his kids, and even engaged in some cordial talk just before the second half started. Here's where it got interesting.

Early in the third quarter, during a relatively quiet moment in the game, I'm lead opposite the table on the visitor's end. The visitor's V coach (or his assistant - I'm not sure which was which) yells out at me for all the gym to hear "You don't belong at this level! This level is way too advanced for you!". Well that one got under my skin and as I was running back the other way during transition, I looked up and mouthed "shut up" at him. I know it was the wrong thing to do. I wouldn't have done such a thing if it wasn't a coach and if there were other fans around that area, but I just reacted poorly. He then yelled out "No you shut up!" and at that point I knew I screwed up and I just ignored him from then on.

It turns out I was also being evaluated by the guy who was going to be working the Varsity game. I didn't know I was being evaluated till the end of the game. Now as much as I know I did the wrong thing, I felt like it was an incredibly classless way for a varsity level coach to behave. If he was on the bench as an assistant to the JV coach I would have the ability to handle it properly. But sitting there in the stands, I believe he was way out of line. It just seems inappropriate for a varsity coach to be able to verbally abuse officials from the stands.

I definitely learned something from this. I need to ignore everything I hear and not react to anything in the stands. I got dinged pretty good for it in my evaluation, and I deserved it. I would have never done this if it were a casual fan, a parent, or a kid. And I won't do it again if this or any other coach says anything from a location other than the team bench. It just ruined what otherwise was a pretty good game. Other than that I got a great evaluation.

Just venting...I learned what I learned and the rest is forgotten. Sometimes in order to take a couple steps in the right direction you have to take a step backward.

Good gosh. I am not alone. Was doing a boy's JV game last week. Similar incident. Varsity coach was on opposite side in the bleachers, not a very crowded gym, and never shut up. We got a comment on every trip down the court. I guess you pay your money, (dang, they should charge admission to the visiting coaches if they are gonna act like fans) and you can say what you want, and I guess he was either getting it out of his system before the Varsity game, or warming up for the Varsity game.

If a fan is abusive or is distracting you from your game have them removed by security. No exceptions. Do not threaten, warn, discuss or negotiate. Simply tell security who needs to go and let them do it.

I never even thought about that option. Oh boy what fun it would have been to see the Varsity coach escorted from the gym.

the evaluator
 

Curious, how did your evaluator sugest that you handle that situation and was the coach as obnoxious in the varsity game as he was in yours. Not real sure that I would have done this in this situation, but you cold always get game management to escort him to the door. On the way out you could have told him he does not belong at this level game either, and that it is to advanced for him. I have had to let fans leave early before if they were getting out of hand. Then again you can't go around tossing every fan that hollers at you either.

I am just curious what your partner said and what the evaluator said, more specifically.

Why didn't you T the coach at this moment? He was humiliating you in front of all the gym! This is unacceptable. That said, I wasn't there, so maybe you had a reason not to do it. ;)

Let me game admin show this guy the parking lot.

Absolutely
 

Including the Varsity Coach for the next game. PERIOD.

Childish fan-like behavior from a coach is absolutely unacceptable - even if he is in the stands as a fan. Kick him out and keep him out during his own game.

If you got degraded in your evaluation for telling him to shut up or giving the zipper signal, I think that was wrong. If any poor mark was called for, I would say it was for not ejecting obnoxious fans.

Re: the evaluator
 

Well as I entered the changing room after our game, the evaluator was doing his pre-game with his partner and only handed us our evaluations on his way out the door to work the varsity game, so I never had a chance to discuss it with him. Although he did say he's be open to talk about anything in our evals at the next meeting or whenever. I am going to email him and see what he would have thought if I had chosen to have the coach removed. I'm guessing he'll just say I need to ignore any comments from the stands and keep my poise at all times. Which I suppose is one way of looking at it. Everyone has their own threshold of tolerance. My partner also thought the coach was an extreme annoyance, but he just ignored it. Clearly I shouldn't have handled it the way I did.

T a fan??
 

Wise Weasel, which rule allows you to give a technical foul to a fan. Please let me know if there is one, because I will be giving a lot of them out now that I know the rules. Do the opposing fans get to pick the shooter?

I couldn't T the coach. The game I was working was the JV game and the JV coach was quiet the whole game. The abusive coach was the V coach sitting in the stands nowhere near the team bench.

Re: T a fan??
 

:S oops... Read too fast I think!...

Re: Re: T a fan??
 

Not really. You can "T" a fan under NFHS rule 2-8-1. The FED doesn't recommend using this option except as a last resort though, as per the note in 2-8-1.There's a good description of the recommended way to call it in the case book under 2.8.1 and the "COMMENT" under it. Recommended reading, as I said.

If you know for sure who the fan is attending the game for, you can "T" the coach of said team.

Smitty, it is a good sign that you both recognize your error and are prepared to move beyond it. Good job.

Although we might all wish and expect that varsity coaches would exhibit a higher level of sportsmanship than the typical fan, I think the best advice for how to handle them *during the course of the game* is just to consider/treat these coaches as you would any fans. If the coach says something that would you cause you to throw out a fan, have him escorted out. If you wouldn't toss another fan for what he says, ignore him.

*After* the game, on the other hand, I think you can go back to expecting more out of an educator (e.g., a varsity coach). Rather than this being something that *you* take up, might you work with your evaluator/assignor/association to indicate to both the coach and his athletic director and principal that his conduct was not appropriate. If it is just *you* complaining, it may appear that you've got an axe to grind. If it is your association speaking, it might carry more weight. If your evaluator/assignor/association isn't interesting in improving the quality of the experiences for officials, then you're stuck with just living with it (or not, if you don't want to). Best wishes.

Aw, geeze. NO you can't. You can hand out a <b>team</b> technical foul for the action of it's fans. The team technical is not charged directly or indirectly to the coach.

I appreciate everyone's feedback so far. First thing this morning I sent basically the same as my original post to my Association Commissioner, filling in more of the details. He just replied that he forwarded my email to the AD at the visiting school. Then he said forget about it and move on. I took that as a pat on the back and he knows I will do better next time. I also responded to him asking if it would have been appropriate to have the coach removed from the gym, and if not, what is his threshold for abuse from fans before having then removed. I also asked the same of the evaluator. It will be interesting to see if their responses differ.

Commish just responded to ignore it all, but if it's a coach he wants to know about it. That works for me. He has lots of clout and can certainly make more of an impact than I can myself.

Okay, so disregard my email except for the gossip part. You did good. And you won't be at that school again for a while. That's how Howard does things.

I'm Sorry a Team Technical.

Improvement Card?
 

We have improvement cards that we can be filled out where I work for issues that need to be addressed that are outside of the rule book and this may be one of them. I would imagine that this is typical chronic behavior from this coach and I would think that his school would want to address this issue but we all know that again, a lot of administrations chose to use the "head in the sand" approach when it comes to these issues. This guy acts like a jerk and so he needs to be treated like a jerk. Sad to say that jerks usually could care less what perceptions others have of them. If the administration cares it will be addressed but if they are apathetic his behavior will continue which is probably the case in this situation. You could go talk to him at half time or during a time out and ask him in so many words to tone it down but again a jerk probably will have something real "jerky" to say in response. When it comes to sportmanship issues most officials and others in charge who have the authority to actually do something about it usually just chose to look the other way and this just adds to what has become a plague on athletic competition at all levels. Difficult situation but at least you did something!!!

This might work or backfire but here it is.
Tell the current coach to ask the V coach to come down to the bench for a question or that you want to tell him something. Do this during a lull in the game. As soon as he gets there, he is now part of the team/bench, T him and throw him out.

In reality Smitty you had a tough row to hoe. I don't know how I would have handled it, but I won't condemn you for how you handled it.

[Edited by SamIAm on Dec 8th, 2004 at 02:18 PM]

Sheesh Dave,

Sounds like you had a fun evening - at least it sounds like a slightly better game than the foul fest Rick & I had ahead of you.

I agree with the others - best bet is to tune the fans out completely, but if one gets too far off the reservation have game management tell them to either cool it or be shown the door. H.M.'s advice to let it go & move on is right on.....

My first eval of the season will probably be either tonight at Gladstone or Friday at HillHi...gotta make sure I wear them shiny new shoes.... :)

Evaluator...
 

I forgot about the evaluator? What kind of luck did he have with this coach? You said he worked the next game with "Mr. Vocal" as the head coach?

Unfortunately I had to leave right away so I didn't get to stick around and heckle the coach from the stands - that would have been fun. Imagine me yelling "What kind of crap play was that?" and "Way to waste a timeout, moron!". I'm kidding of course. But it's fun to imagine. I did email the evaluator and am waiting for his reply. He's a fairly senior member in the association, so I don't expect he would have had the same problems I had. I'm guessing the V coach would have shown more restraint sitting at the team bench, but I really won't know until I hear back from the evaluator.

And Tim, aside from that moment in time where I lost my head, we had a pretty uneventful, but not very well played, game. I'm not sure which one of us got the better deal in the end. Good luck with your shiny shoes. Interestingly enough, my evaluation made no mention of other things I know I didn't do "by the book". I guess my "shut up" comment rose to the top of the pile...

No, what would have been funny was if you were filling in on the JV game and you were staying to do HIS game.:D

In Arizona schools must follow the state's Pursuing Victory with Honor program. The varsity coaches display was unacceptable under our sportsmanship code. The school's AD and the varsity officials watching would file a report here in AZ, if something like that happened.

We also have a Walk Worthy in the Uniform program, so your reaction would also enter into the discussion.

Remember, nothing good comes from reacting to the stands. You look bad, and it is pouring gas on the fire because now they know they can get to you. Ignore it, or stop the game and let game management take care of it.

If this guy is supposed to be a coach and member of that school district, shouldn't he be modeling sportsmanship for everyone else? I'd have gone to game management and had him removed for sure. If you are absolutely sure it was the varsity coach, your state association may be interested that he was removed from a game as a fan. Depending on the state, that might be gounds for a suspension. Just my opinion of course.

I believe I would have asked him nicely if he wanted to stay for his game. Then if he said anything else or smarted back towards that comment. Wham, I would of tossed him without thinking twice about it. However I would of went to game management and told him that this guy has to go --and that's the way it is, period. I agree with Junker, this is just unreal. No sportsmanship at all, very sad. I believe I would submit a letter to your State and let them handle it. I also agree it would of been great if you were subing in the JV game and had the V game. Cause the VERY FIRST thing he said towards me I would of waited until his team had the ball and I would have whacked him. Hang in there!

T Jones

Got a reply to my email from the evaluator/varsity ref. Although he agreed that the comments the coach made were disparaging and I would have been justified in having him tossed from the gym, he wouldn't recommend it. He recommended instead to ignore it and bring it to the attention of our commissioner and possibly the state. He also said that during the varsity game the coach was, in his words, "a pussycat". He mentioned that over the years he's earned the coach's respect, so I guess I have a few years to go, eh? It's done and I think I'll get it right the next time. I hope there's not a next time...

My only comment is that you shouldn't have to <b>earn</b> a coach's respect to make them stop treating you like sh*t. It's a two-way street. Coaches have to earn our respect too, and they'll never do that by dumping on us. We're <b>expected</b> to deal with people in a fair, polite and sporting manner. We should also <b>expect</b> to be treated the same way.

Takes Dan_ref's advice. Get game administration to put his a$$ in the parking lot next time. See if that will get you some respect. If not, maybe the jerk will think about it a little bit anyway.

I would suggest never mouthing/saying/indicating/etc. "shut up" or something similar to a fan - even if you know it's the head coach for the varsity team. If something's needed, just give him a stern look before the next inbounds pass or just stare him down during the next timeout (if the setup of the gym allows, and if you have the personality to do this).

I think the best solution (other than perhaps speaking to your assignor after the game) is to mention something to the JV coach (if you're comfortable with it), but more importantly to go out for the rest of the game, to not let his comments rattle you, and to prove that you don't belong at the JV level - you should be working his varsity games. (With my apologies for the run-on sentence.)

Actually had something similar happen last year, I was working a JV girls game & the varsity coach was sitting behind the team bench making snide comments most of the first half. Just before we started the 3rd quarter, I quietly told the JV coach "Coach, you need to get your bench under control". This apparently did the trick, as we hardly heard another peep out of the varsity coach the rest of the game.

I was also doubling for the varsity game, and mentioned it to my partner during the pregame. The look on the varsity coach's face when we introduced ourselves during warmups was hillarious - took everything I had not to break out in a big grin! She was just fine the rest of the night - had my partner & I chuckling to ourselves, as she had somewhat of a reputation for being "a little vocal".

Had a similar situation a couple of years ago. I had already worked the F/JV game (wise-@ss V coach sat behind the bench during JV game) and one of the varsity officials (2-man crew) was involved in a fender-bender on the way to the game and I had to fill in. During introductions in the varsity game, the varsity coach sort of apologized and asked me if anything would be "carried over" because of his comments during JV game. I just smiled at him and said "No, I'm an adult" and just walked away. No comments from him the entire game.

I hope there IS a next time and that you do get it right. The kind of treatment you described is unacceptable from anyone and is especially reprehensible if it is coming from a coach. Coaches should be the next to highest example of great sportsmanship... right below officials.:D

The varsity dude's game would also have been quiet as a pussycat without the howler there. I still think send him packing.

I certainly understand your point of view, and I agree with it. However, my association commissioner also told me to ignore it and he's the one who assigns my games. I'm between a rock and a hard place there. If and when I do work one of his games, I will approach it like any other. I try to be as professional as possible every game. I'm relatively new to this association, so I am not very familiar with many coaches yet. This is my 12th year officiating, but also my 5th association.

Smitty,

I guess it just boils down to:
1. If he's on the bench, whack him with a direct T, plus an indirect to the head coach.
2. If he's in the stands as a spectator, ignore it unless it gets too disruptive, then ask game management to handle it.
3. In either case, make a written report to the commissioner & let him do the follow-up.

I'm sure it's not the first time the coach has done this, and if a documented pattern starts to emerge it can only help you and your fellow officials in the future. My wife's an RN, and they have a saying in the medical profession - "If it isn't written down, it didn't happen." In otherwords, document everything.

I had something similar last night at Happyrock - JV boys game & one of the varsity coaches was several rows up from the bench making obnoxious comments - I chose to ignore him & went about my business. In the locker-room after the game one of the officials for the varsity game told me he overheard a couple of the comments and asked if I had heard them - I told him yes, but chose to ignore them & why. He agreed with my reasoning, but also said he didn't like the coach's attitude & was going to keep him on a very short leash during the varsity game. This morning I fired off a short, quick email to the commish just to put in writing what a jerk the varsity coach was during the JV game.

Hey Smitty,

Whenever I have had trouble with a fan I will generally ask the administration at the host school to handle it. It would have been pretty funny seeing the visitors varsity coach publically chastised and perhaps escorted from the building.

This was the first time I have ever had someone in the stands that I knew was a coach do something like that at one of my games. I don't care if the casual fan, parent or kid complains. I actually get a kick out of that sort of thing. I was just so shocked that the V coach would be so loud and boisterous and make it so personal. Again, this being only my second year in this association, I am still discovering the different personalities. And I'm trying to move up and do the right thing. For me, the right thing is what my commissioner tells me. I'm angry at myself for how I originally handled it, but I am satisfied with the way I handled it afterwards. I fessed up to my commissioner and asked how he wanted it handled in the future. Clearly things are done differently in other areas. I respect that. And Tim, I wish the guy was on the bench so I could have handled it myself. In my opinion, the guy was a coward knowing he was outside of my reach in the stands and I couldn't do anything about it. It's on him...I'm done with it.

Smitty,
You can teach from experience, but you can't teach experience. The good thing from this situation is that if it ever happens again (hopefully it won't), you have a better idea of how you want to handle it. I'm sure we've all had similar situations in our careers that we handle differently now than the first time they've happened. Did I mention that the cup is always half full and there's a pot of gold at the end of the rainbow?

Sheez, Smitty one night, Tim Taylor the next. Do you suppose it's in our water?? Do I want to work tonight?!? I guess it'll be okay, since I now know how to handle it.

Juulie - do you think we should translate for everyone and let them know that Happyrock is near The O.C.? ;)

Have the school official give V coach his walking papers. That's what they are there for. No one has the right to interfere with your ability to officiate and The V coach has no more right to be a jack *** than any other fan. I personally expect more from other coaches and school administrators and school board members. As for giving a T because of the fans, NFHS rules say you could have, but they have a strong caution about doing this. You open a seriously weird can of worms when you do.

...and now that I think about it the school Smitty was at is in the same league!! Now is that a coincidence or what!?!?

Uh Juulie....now I'm confused. Smitty's game was at a Metro/Mt. Hood non-conference & mine was a Tri-Valley/Cowapa?.....

Yea, you're right. leagues all different. BUt they're within 5 miles of each other. So it could still be the water!