Illegal Substitution

[thumpferee]

nfhs

HS boys game. I am reporting a foul on A when 3-4 B players run onto the floor without reporting or being beckoned. I assessed an indirect T to the HC. The scorer, my P's nor myself knew which players came onto the court and which came off.

How would you have handled this?

In reading 10-2 and the technical summary chart, it only gives example for one player. Would it be one T per player with only 2 shots plus ball to A at division line, or, 2 shots per T plus the ball to A?

Thanks!

[Jurassic Referee]

The penalty for what the players did is a "T" charged to each player. If you can't identify the players, you can't charge any of them with a "T". There is no rule that would allow you to charge the head coach with an indirect "T" either.

Iow, you had nothing to call if you didn't know what players violated the rule.

If I do get subs that start to come on without being beckoned, I stop them and send them back. I also let them know they should wait for an official next time. I'd rather warn than "T" on this one any time.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Dec 6th, 2004 at 07:50 AM]

[IREFU2]

SECTION 2 SUBSTITUTE TECHNICAL
A substitute shall not enter the court:
ART. 1 . . . Without reporting to the scorer.
ART. 2 . . . Without being beckoned by an official, except between quarters.
PENALTY: (Arts. 1, 2) Two free throws plus ball for division-line throw-in. One foul for either or both requirements. Penalized if discovered before the ball becomes live.
NOTE: A single flagrant technical foul or the second technical foul charged to a substitute results in disqualification of the offender to the team bench.

I guess you can justify your "T" by this rule, but I think that coach is responsible for all bench personal, so he would get the "T", which would add to the team totall fouls.

[Ref in PA]

The technical foul penalty summary in the NFHS book on page 73 indicates that the substitutes are bench personnel and an indirect goes to the HC. I would also assume that a T is given for each player running on the court. In this case you would have to identify the players who came on the court, each would get a T and the HC gets an indirect for each T. If you call 3 Ts, that would be 3 indirects and the HC is gone.

Personally, I would find some way of making the subs go back to the table and doing it all over again. I would also give a short explanation to both coaches about why I am doing the substitution this way with the possible consequences that were averted by doing it over. It reminds the coaches to have better control over their players.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Ref in PA
The technical foul penalty summary in the NFHS book on page 73 indicates that the substitutes are bench personnel and an indirect goes to the HC. I would also assume that a T is given for each player running on the court. In this case you would have to identify the players who came on the court, each would get a T and the HC gets an indirect for each T. If you call 3 Ts, that would be 3 indirects and the HC is gone.

Say whaaaaat?

Where does it say that in the summary on P73? In my book,the 3rd. section down refers to substitutes entering the court without reporting or being beckoned-- and the penalty is a "T" on the substitute only- NOT an indirect "T" on the coach too. If you were looking at the 5th. section down, that section isn't applicable. The penalty for R10-2 also says that you penalize the substitute ONLY. Also see case book play 10.2.1SitB- that's explicit too-- "T" on the substitute only.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Dec 6th, 2004 at 10:33 AM]