long switches in HS

[thumpferee]

This is a great topic! I have had concerns on this as well.

It is my understanding that if, for ex: you are the C, opposite table, and have a foul, you become the C tableside.

If you are table side, same stitch, you are still the C table side.

If you are L opposite table, and have a foul, you become the C.

If you are the L table side, you become the trail.

If you are the L opposite table, you become the C.

If you are the L table side going the other way, you now become the new L. (long switch) T is new T.

If you are the T table side going the other way, you are now the new L.

Did I get them all?

Correct me Please!

[JRutledge]

thumpferee,

Do not complicate it. All you are doing is going table side on fouls in the front court. You are not automatically going to be the C or the T for example unless you know where the ball is being put in at.

If I call a foul from the C position (opposite table), there is no guarantee I am going to be the C when you switch to the side of the table.

Peace

[thumpferee]

Originally posted by JRutledge
thumpferee,

Do not complicate it. All you are doing is going table side on fouls in the front court. You are not automatically going to be the C or the T for example unless you know where the ball is being put in at.

If I call a foul from the C position (opposite table), there is no guarantee I am going to be the C when you switch to the side of the table.

Peace

Thanks Rut!

What if you are the L table side going the other way, ex: Player Control foul. Will you become the L on the long switch, or stay as the T and administer the throw in as the T?

[rockyroad]

Originally posted by RookieDude
Rocky,
Good description of the V-back...that's what we have been doing per the WOA clinics.

Another question concerning 3-whistle:

Sideline throw-in in backcourt opposite side going to frontcourt...C's side.
Would old C administer the throw-in as new trail and "force" the old L to become new C and old T become new L opposite table?

Diagram 50 Page 66 in the Officials Manual shows this...just wondering if this also applies if it was C's side. (opposite table)

So as a general rule...do we administer throw-ins if the ball goes OOB on our sideline no matter which way we are going?

JCurrie got this one right for you RD...T will handle all throw-ins in the back-court, regardless of which side of the court...everybody else slides to correct positions...the one thing I have come across is the L's unwillingness to let go of the sideline oob calls - they keep wanting to call it when the ball goes out on the side, even tho the T has that sideline. Made for a couple of interesting double whistles the other night!

[smoref]

Originally posted by rockyroad

No problem - it's a little unclear unless you were at one of the WIAA/WOA camps...where in the state are you??? [/B]

I am in Snohomish County and if you are who I think you are then we have a CC game together on 2/19 but I could be completely wrong.

Are you in Vancouver?



[Edited by smoref on Dec 2nd, 2004 at 03:16 PM]

[rockyroad]

Originally posted by smoref
[
I am in Snohomish County and if you are who I think you are then we have a CC game together on 2/19 but I could be completely wrong.

Are you in Vancouver?



[Edited by smoref on Dec 2nd, 2004 at 03:16 PM]

Hmmm...I am in Vancouver, but on Feb. 19 I am at Pacific Lutheran...could you be Mr. Morris by any chance?

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by thumpferee


Thanks Rut!

What if you are the L table side going the other way, ex: Player Control foul. Will you become the L on the long switch, or stay as the T and administer the throw in as the T?

If your area advocates a long switch and you go table side, you might be the C or the L depending on where the ball is going to be put at.

If you live in my area, you will go back to the same position and stay at the same position and become the Trail.

Peace

[smoref]

Originally posted by rockyroad

Hmmm...I am in Vancouver, but on Feb. 19 I am at Pacific Lutheran...could you be Mr. Morris by any chance?

Sorry about that, It is a D3 game. and yes you are correct sir

[RookieDude]

Originally posted by thumpferee
If you are the L table side going the other way, you now become the new L. (long switch) T is new T.

I believe JRut explained this the same way we do it in WA state.

The L would go back to the endline and become the new T going the other way...we call this a V-back.

As far as the T crossing the court to take the throw-in from C...that will surely have to be a pre-game item for us guys that have been doing 2-whistle forever.

BTW...I wonder why that scenario is not in the Officials Manual?

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by RookieDude
BTW...I wonder why that scenario is not in the Officials Manual?

Because they publish the book every two years. The changes came up before the new book could come out next year.

Peace

[RookieDude]

Originally posted by JRutledge

Because they publish the book every two years. The changes came up before the new book could come out next year.

Peace

I think we may be talking about two different things here.

I realize the book doesn't come out every year...therefore, the current Officials Manual doesn't show proper switches on certain fouls.

BUT, I am talking about the ball going OOB in the frontcourt and going the other way on C's side opposite table.

The following was posted:
In 3-man, the new trail has all back court throws-in. If the ball is to be put in on C's side, the C will go down and become to new L, L pulls back into C, and T crosses the court for the throw-in

If I'm reading this right...it is not what we have been advised to do in this area of the country.

In fact, I mentioned the above quote to a couple of my college official buddies...and they said the way they do it is the old C goes to new L, the old L becomes the new T (administers ball) and the old T (tableside) becomes the new C (tableside).
(BTW...it doesn't matter if C is tableside or not for this procedure)

This "feels" much better...and is how we did it the other night.

Rocky...do you agree?...or are you saying the old T (tableside) crosses the court to administer the throw-in (opposite table)?

You might know one of the guys I asked...he will be doing a couple games at Seattle Pacific on Dec. 27th and 28th I believe...Mr. Barlow.




[Edited by RookieDude on Dec 3rd, 2004 at 01:11 AM]

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by RookieDude

I think we may be talking about two different things here.

I realize the book doesn't come out every year...therefore, the current Officials Manual doesn't show proper switches on certain fouls.

BUT, I am talking about the ball going OOB in the frontcourt and going the other way on C's side opposite table.

The following was posted:
In 3-man, the new trail has all back court throws-in. If the ball is to be put in on C's side, the C will go down and become to new L, L pulls back into C, and T crosses the court for the throw-in


If I'm reading this right...it is not what we have been advised to do in this area of the country.


In fact, I mentioned the above quote to a couple of my college official buddies...and they said the way they do it is the old C goes to new L, the old L becomes the new T (administers ball) and the old T (tableside) becomes the new C (tableside).


This "feels" much better...and is how we did it the other night.

Rocky...do you agree?...or are you saying the old T (tableside) crosses the court to administer the throw-in (opposite table)?

The way I read it, both of these procedures are saying exactly the same thing (although one is very convoluted). The difference is that one is going directly from the pre turnover postions to the final postions and the other is starting in the location the official are in before the turnover but labeling what they would be after the turnover (as if the ball had remained inbound as in a steal). Then it makes the adjustment for the location of the ball.

Said another way, the blue one (as I've highlighted above) has the old T first transition to a L by nature of the ball being turned over. However, since the ball is to be thrown in opposite site, that old T/new L instead shifts to the C and the old L/new T must cross the court and the old C/new C instead shifts to the lead.

I've sketched a picture to illustrate this with the colors matching the text highlighted above....

[RookieDude]

Beautiful!

That is exactly how we did it!

Thanks Camaron...your illustrations and explanations were very helpful to this ol' 2-whistle Ref.

[rockyroad]

And I agree with Cameron - both posts had it right, just looking at the "positions" differently...I've met Mr. Barlow before, a few years ago...he knows his stuff.

[IREFU2]

I am glad someone brough this up, I had a game the other night and we had that long switch. We pregamed that we would not do the long switch and of course a Varsity Official was sitting in the crowd from our board and blasted us about missing switches. I also went to a womans college camp this summer and they do the bump and slide which means that if there is a foul in the back court and the trail calls it, he/she reports the foul and stays with the ball. I like it like that, no need to rotate if you dont have too. But I guess in two man, they want a new look after the foul has been called. Just my two cents.