can you overturn a call?

JohnBark · #1 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 30, 2004, 08:29pm

less than a minute in the game, Team A is up by 5 and has the ball in FC. A1 just caught the ball. and my partner, who apparently doesn't know when to start or end a 5 second count, calls a 5 second violation on A1 who just call the ball. Team A's coach, who is up by 5, goes nuts!

I didn't overturn the call, because it wasn't my call. I did see it though. Should or could I have overturned the 5 second call?

If so, Team B's coach would go nuts. But, should I have done the right thing and returned the ball back to Team A and overturn my partners very, very bad call?

Lotto · #2 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 30, 2004, 08:54pm

By rule, you cannot overturn a partner's call. However, if your partner makes a call that you are 1000% sure is wrong, blow your whistle and go to him/her and explain quietly. Then let him/her change the call.

Pregame this before every game. I always say that I won't come unless I am 1000% sure; and that I will always change my call if partner comes to me.

That being said, it's not clear that going to your partner in this game would have been a good idea. If this happened in the first minute of the game, just imagine how many times it might happen in the next 31 minutes. (Gulp!)

Get in, get done, get out.

refnrev · #3 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 30, 2004, 09:58pm

This is interesting to me because I worked 7th and 8th grade girl's games last night with a partner I'd never had before. He's new and in his 2nd year. He missed every charge/block in both the games (badly I might add). One poor girl had been set in the lane for about 4 seconds and got steamrolled. He also had lots of mechanics errors... like never "chopping the clock" (OK Nev, let me have it for the terminology), never had a closely guarded five second count, blew the whistle on every inbounds, stood at the scorer's table the entire time on every time out, set up in the wrong place when I was administering the free throws...

I didn't say anything about the block/charges because that's often the hardest call we make and I couldn't overturn it anyway. Also, can you imagine some rabid mother or father going crazy over that?

After the game I was going to try to give him a few pointers about mechanics, but he was so excited about the game and obviously felt so good about it I just kept quiet. I might have said something if I had known him better. We're in different states (I'm licensed in 2)and he's a part of another state's regional association. I hope some of them will help him.

What would some of you have you have done?

Dan_ref · #4 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 30, 2004, 10:40pm

Quote:

Originally posted by refnrev
This is interesting to me because I worked 7th and 8th grade girl's games last night with a partner I'd never had before. He's new and in his 2nd year. He missed every charge/block in both the games (badly I might add). One poor girl had been set in the lane for about 4 seconds and got steamrolled. He also had lots of mechanics errors... like never "chopping the clock" (OK Nev, let me have it for the terminology), never had a closely guarded five second count, blew the whistle on every inbounds, stood at the scorer's table the entire time on every time out, set up in the wrong place when I was administering the free throws...

I didn't say anything about the block/charges because that's often the hardest call we make and I couldn't overturn it anyway. Also, can you imagine some rabid mother or father going crazy over that?

After the game I was going to try to give him a few pointers about mechanics, but he was so excited about the game and obviously felt so good about it I just kept quiet. I might have said something if I had known him better. We're in different states (I'm licensed in 2)and he's a part of another state's regional association. I hope some of them will help him.

What would some of you have you have done?

You mean other than shake his hand, smile, tell him it's been a pleasure and head out the door?

BTW, I'm not sure I agree block/charge is the hardest call.

QuebecRef87 · #5 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 30, 2004, 10:59pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Dan_ref
BTW, I'm not sure I agree block/charge is the hardest call.

Then what do you think is it? Hmmm... Interesting subject! I think I'll start a thread!

Mark Padgett · #6 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 30, 2004, 11:58pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Lotto
and that I will always change my call if partner comes to me.

Are you saying this is your policy even on rule interpretations? What if your partner is wrong?

blindzebra · #7 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 01, 2004, 12:52am

Quote:

Originally posted by JohnBark
less than a minute in the game, Team A is up by 5 and has the ball in FC. A1 just caught the ball. and my partner, who apparently doesn't know when to start or end a 5 second count, calls a 5 second violation on A1 who just call the ball. Team A's coach, who is up by 5, goes nuts!

I didn't overturn the call, because it wasn't my call. I did see it though. Should or could I have overturned the 5 second call?

If so, Team B's coach would go nuts. But, should I have done the right thing and returned the ball back to Team A and overturn my partners very, very bad call?

Did A2 have it for 5 seconds? Perhaps he had the call BEFORE the pass, but was a tad late with the whistle?

If it was a bad call, go to him and ask if he's sure? He may have just had a loss of focus and your question may bring him back and he can fix his call, but you should not overturn him, just give him the info and let him fix it.

[Edited by blindzebra on Dec 1st, 2004 at 12:55 AM]

zebra44 · #8 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 01, 2004, 05:38am

If you lock in on the defender, then the block/charge is not the hardest call.

Forksref · #9 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 01, 2004, 09:37am

Quote:

Originally posted by zebra44
If you lock in on the defender, then the block/charge is not the hardest call.

I agree. Officiate the defense and you will get it right. I look for shoulders square to the A player and thus, the feet don't matter if it is a legal guarding position.

LarryS · #10 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 01, 2004, 10:50am

Quote:

Originally posted by JohnBark
less than a minute in the game, Team A is up by 5 and has the ball in FC. A1 just caught the ball. and my partner, who apparently doesn't know when to start or end a 5 second count, calls a 5 second violation on A1 who just call the ball. Team A's coach, who is up by 5, goes nuts!

He needs to meet the guy I saw last night. I didn't have a game so I went and watch my daughter cheer at a varsity game with my wife. About midway through the second quarter my wife asked how long they had to bring the ball past midcourt. I told her, and said you could tell if they were getting close to a violation by watching the officials count. A few minutes later she mentions he is counting slow. OK...maybe I do to at times.

During the second half my wife watched the clock and I watched him on two trips up the floor. The clock ticked off 10 seconds and he was at 5 once and 4 the second time. Glad he's not timing my work day

Kelvin green · #11 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 01, 2004, 10:57am

In these wierd situations like this I dont go and explain, I go and ask what they saw or what they have. I let them explain and see if it makes sense by rule.

I have had younger partners who make the rookies mistakes like backcourt on a FC Throw-in with no control, etc where I will ask.

If not to get it right but you know that the coach will ask and you better know.

Lotto · #12 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 01, 2004, 11:17am

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Padgett

Quote:

Originally posted by Lotto
and that I will always change my call if partner comes to me.

Are you saying this is your policy even on rule interpretations? What if your partner is wrong?

My partners are never wrong!

Seriously, though, I was thinking more of calls where partner sees something that I didn't---a touch by a player before an out of bounds on my line, a time-out or violation before a foul I call, that kind of thing.

If partner comes to me with a rule question, then we'll talk and come to a decision. But partner should never overrule---just bring me info and let me change my own call.

ref18 · #13 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 01, 2004, 11:22am

One thing, if you think your partner makes a mistake earlier in the game, don't bring it up until after the game. Because this is from experience, I tend to dwell on the things I do wrong, so if I get told there's something I did wrong, I'm focusing on that more than the game in the second half.

DJ · #14 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 01, 2004, 02:09pm

It is OK to discuss some issues on the court but I think that you should not jesture when you are discussing issues and if it is a little on the controversial side then you should probably wait until half time or after the game. I think the worst mistake though is to not discuss anything. A post game is just as educational and as important as a pregame as long as it is handled in a contructive manner.

JRutledge · #15 (**permalink**) Wed Dec 01, 2004, 03:00pm

All you can do is give help. You can never overrule a partner. You give your partner information and then they change it if your information gives them a reason to change the call. On a 5 second call, not sure what you could add to the call. I would need more information to really say what the official called and why the official called a 5 second call. Are you saying that your partner's count started in the BC?

Peace