Starting the season with a bang

[Rich]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Sara, hopefully by now any doubt that you may have had about your actions has been completely erased. Your actions were absolutely correct.

Personally, I probably would've called the game a forfeit after the F-U comment, and definitely would've called a forfeit after the spitting.

The f--- you comment was a flagrant technical.

You started off well, BTW. The hat throwing was a big deal. It's grandstanding and gets an immediate T from me, too.

And I would've run the assistant at the point where he came across the floor clapping -- I'm not sure if that's what happened in your game, but it's what I would've done.

I think I would've forfeited this game much earlier than this, but I have very little patience for youth games where players and coaches act like this. I think it's a function of getting older and grumpier.

Your partner is an idiot. But I think you already know that.

--Rich

[lrpalmer3]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
[B

I call this a flagrant T.

I don't even make that call. He is NOT the HEAD coach. He does NOT get promoted when the other moron leaves. He is still just an assistant. He can't use the coaching box, nor may he request a time-out. IMO.
[/B]

These were interesting responses. Made me go back to my book.

[tomegun]

I think you did a good job.
No wonder your partner wouldn't have called those Ts, he hasn't called a T in 14 years!!

Nevada, if the head coach is thrown out of the game, are you saying you wouldn't let the assistant coach call a timeout? I understand about the assistant not standing up. Can you tell me the rule reference that talks about this (the assistant, who is now the coach, calling the timeout)? If a player got hurt would you let anyone come onto the court?

Oh, yeah. The F bomb would definatley get a high school player a permanent seat on the bench and a college player an early shower.

[Edited by tomegun on Nov 30th, 2004 at 01:15 PM]

[lrpalmer3]

Originally posted by SpeedyGonGoalie


As for some preventative officiating, I would have talked to both coaches and both captains after about the 3rd technical. I would have given everyone, including the other team (who seemed to be behaving) a warning that no more of what was going on would be tolerated.

I like this too.

Forfeiting a game is much easier when the fans, benches, and table personnel have all seen the actions you described to us.

[DJ]

Sounds like whoever is in charge of your league needs to go to the person in charge of these "7th grade kids" and tell them that if the conduct of their team does not improve pronto that they will no longer be welcome in this rec league. This is what is wrong with America. We tolerate way too much bad behavior and think that we are doing our kids a favor by doing it. Ah yes, the Pistons and the Pacers at a different level. And we scratch our heads and wonder why!! Good job , you did your part. Now it is up to the league authority to do their part.

[SF]

Thanks for all the responses. I feel a little bit better about it now.

When I called the T for dropping the f-bomb, I was thinking flagrant, but then he spit at me and it was just a reflex to call another T. At that point, I just went with two technicals.

I asked my partner at a timeout if he thought we should forfeit the game, as he was the referee. He said he thought it was unnecessary, so I just tried to get done with the game.

I submitted a report to the tournament director, and he called me back today. This coach is forbidden from participating in any other area tournaments run this league, or from working in either of the leagues I work in. He also thanked me and said he would double my pay for that game. That's nice of him, but I would have rather just had a good game.

I'm a young ref, and I work a lot of rec basketball, hoping to improve game management and just get more court time. Definitely got some game management practice this weekend.

By the way, the fans were equally obnoxious, but I just ignored them. "He got mugged, call 911! People are doing time for less than that! Call a d*amn travel, you idiot ref!"

No wonder the kids were so bad, when you look at their "adult" examples. I'm just glad the leagues I work in clearly have much better sportsmanship than the league this team was from.

[tjones1]

Hang in there! Don't let one idiots stupid remarks get you down. Like everyone has said: you did your job --and did it well I might add. The more I think about it, I would of froze just like you did if a 7TH GRADER dropped the F-bomb towards me and even further spit on me.

Originally posted by SF
Thanks for all the responses. I feel a little bit better about it now.

When I called the T for dropping the f-bomb, I was thinking flagrant, but then he spit at me and it was just a reflex to call another T. At that point, I just went with two technicals.

I asked my partner at a timeout if he thought we should forfeit the game, as he was the referee. He said he thought it was unnecessary, so I just tried to get done with the game.

I submitted a report to the tournament director, and he called me back today. This coach is forbidden from participating in any other area tournaments run this league, or from working in either of the leagues I work in. He also thanked me and said he would double my pay for that game. That's nice of him, but I would have rather just had a good game.

I'm a young ref, and I work a lot of rec basketball, hoping to improve game management and just get more court time. Definitely got some game management practice this weekend.

By the way, the fans were equally obnoxious, but I just ignored them. "He got mugged, call 911! People are doing time for less than that! Call a d*amn travel, you idiot ref!"

No wonder the kids were so bad, when you look at their "adult" examples. I'm just glad the leagues I work in clearly have much better sportsmanship than the league this team was from.

One of the unfortunate aspects of being a young(ish) female ref is the fact that you have to prove yourself over and over again. I find that with some people they use the age and size and gender to speculate how good you are.

I ran into a lot of this when I was doing University Rec Leagues. Be confident, make strong solid calls and it will come together.

Not all games will be like this. Move on and have fun.

Keep on reffin' and have fun out there.

[QuebecRef87]

Originally posted by SF
By the way, the fans were equally obnoxious, but I just ignored them. "He got mugged, call 911! People are doing time for less than that! Call a d*amn travel, you idiot ref!"

Hahaha! So classic...

This proves once more a quite funny quote from Pierre Marion: "As a group, the spectators present three characteristics: ignorance of the rules, emotionally involved in a team and a traditional antipathy towards officials. Knowing these facts can help you understand why you must forget about the fans, except if they interrupt the match or unable you from doing your duty".

Hehe! Free translation from French... I hope there aren't too many mistakes!

[refnrev]

Sara,
Congrtulations for surviving a disaster. Do you read Referee magazine? This month's issue points out that the worst sportsmanship in sports is in the rec level and professional. You would probably agree with that now. I've seen it in basketball and soccer.
Also, at the risk of sounding sexist and I don't mean to be, I've worked with women partners and have found that male coaches will often say things to them during a game that they wouldn't dare say to me or another man. The F U quote for her came at an 8th grade girl's Catholic Jr. High district champioship. He also bumped her when he was saying it. She's 5'3 - 120. I'm 6'1 - 215. He'd have never done that to a male referee. We made sure he was written up for the incident. Don't take that off of any coach, especially some rec league coach who has reached the zenith of his illustrious coaching career!

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by refnrev

Also, at the risk of sounding sexist and I don't mean to be, I've worked with women partners and have found that male coaches will often say things to them during a game that they wouldn't dare say to me or another man. The F U quote for her came at an 8th grade girl's Catholic Jr. High district champioship. He also bumped her when he was saying it. She's 5'3 - 120. I'm 6'1 - 215. He'd have never done that to a male referee. We made sure he was written up for the incident.

Sara, Refnrev is right and so's Christina (cingram). Women do have to prove themselves over and over and over again, even with women coaches sometimes. But keep remembering that old saying that our mothers had hanging on their refrigerators, and later in their cubicles, and now it's framed and hanging in the corner offices. "Unfortunately, women have to be twice as good as men to get the same rewards. Fortunately, this isn't difficult."