I did some bits of a scrimmage last week and felt like I had almost forgotten everything I had learned about officiating basketball last season.

Some things that confused me:

1 - Player bringing the ball up, dribbles off the hip and continues to dribble. Is that just an interrupted dribble (no whistle) or a double dribble (whistle)?

2 - If I'm the non-administering official on a free throw, what all am I doing? Can someone run through the sequence of mechanics on that? What arm is going up when and what about when it's a bonus situation? I'm a bit unclear on that or have forgotten.

Sorry to sound like a noob. I've just seriously forgotten mechanics since February.

I guess you're doing 2 man.

What I do as trail in 2 man:

First shot: hold up 1, 2, or 3, or 1 & 1 for the table. When the shooter gets the ball start a slight count with the hand that is away from the table. No arm swinging, just a wrist flick. On the shot that will make the ball live I take a couple of steps down towards the endline while raising my arm that is facing the table. Don't raise your arm or move until the ball is shot. Stop before the ball hits the rim to refereee the rebound. If there's a rebound chop the clock when a player contacts the ball. If the ball goes in lower my arm and wait to see what happens on the throw in.

Oh yeah, you also have to watch the table for subs.

I count and chop with the same arm -- the one away from the shooter.

If the ball touching the hip causes the ball to come to rest in the hand, then a subsequent dribble is a violation. If the ball simply bounces away after hitting the hip, then you treat it as an interrupted dribble.

1. If you're the calling official, indicate the number of FTs to your partner.
2. Indicate number of FTs to the table.
3. When shooter catches ball from the administering official, begin a subtle count. Use a wrist flick, rather than swinging your arm.
4. Observe shooter to make sure s/he doesn't step over the FT line.
5. If the ball will remain alive on a miss, raise arm (whichever one is closer to the table) when the FT is released.
6. (FED) Observe players on far lane line for early entry into the lane.
6. (NCAA) Observe players on nearer lane line for early entry into the lane.
7. Observe flight of the ball to make sure it hits rim.
8. Observe any play above the rim in case of GT or BI.
9. Observe players on nearer side of basket to officiate rebounding action.
10. Chop clock when ball is legally touched after the missed FT.
11. Lower arm (without chopping) if FT is made and observe players for holding or screening action during throw-in.

Other than that, you can pretty much relax. :)

Geeze Chuck, does this mean you had to drop "Walking and chewing gum at the same time 101"...again??

Oh well, hang in there, you'll get it eventually!

(btw, check #5 in your list of things to do.)

No, it means that I don't want my count to distract the shooter, as unlikely as that might be. :p
Ok, I checked it. It's right. What don't you like about it?

Awww, c'mon now, you're just pretending to be dense (or to quote a great statesman from the south: "another stupid yankee :D ).

"raise arm (whichever one is closer to the table)"

doesn't seem consistent with

"I count and chop with the same arm -- the one away from the shooter."

Does it?


[Edited by Dan_ref on Nov 19th, 2004 at 11:22 AM]

OverAndBack, I think Dan and Chuck have given excellent responses for what you do during the FT. I would add this: in 2-man, under federation mechanics, the lead is looking at the two defensive players on opposite sides of the lane in the bottom (closest to the basket) lane spaces plus all the other players on the opposite side of the lane from the lead; the trail is looking at the one or two (if any) players on the opposite side of the lane from the trail, plus the free throw shooter.

Dan, I don't see the inconsistency with what Chuck said. He counts with the hand away from the shooter (and closest to the table), then raises that same hand on the shot's release and chops with that same hand when appropriate if the shot is missed. That is, the "one away from the shooter" is always the same that is "closest to the table." No?

Yes :D

Part of the problem is the term "away from the shooter."

I used that term in a class. Then we went out and practiced. One official kept using the "wrong" arm. He insisted that the arm he was using was "farther away from the shooter" because it was closer to the sideline (than the other arm).

So, now I use "the arm closer to the table" or "the arm closer to the division line." Not as much confusion (at least on this point).

(If, from T's perspective (two-person; C's perspective, 3-person), the shooter is at the right end of the court, T will count and raise the left arm; if the shoooter is at the left end, count and raise with the right arm.)

In any event, use the same arm -- not both arms as someone posted.

I'm not sure how "the arm closest to the sideline" is NOT "the arm away from the shooter" but it's not worth discussing.

I count with my wrist that is closest to the sideline opposite the table.

Better?

If your back is the sideline, aren't both arms the same distance away from the sideline? I think the term that Bob used (the arm closer to the division line) works good. And as he said, you use that same arm to do the wrist count and to raise.

Z

if in trail 2 man, or c 3 man, you usually turn at an angle towards the basket especially in 3 man... so if on the left end of the court(to the left of the table as you are looking at it) the hand away from the shooter is the left hand, count with that one and raise that hand when getting ready to chop in time... if you raise your right arm on the left end of the court, you will block your vision of the players to your right and could miss something that you would normally of seen without your arm up!!! Just something that they went over at college camp this summer! Some may do it differently, but it made alot of sense to me!

Same thing goes when throwing the ball in, if on the left of the inbounder use your left arm, if on their right use your right arm to chop, all for same reason, arm gets in the way and you can't see everything you should be looking at!!!!

Obviously my back is not completely to the sideline.

wow
 

Okay, I have learned a lot from that thread, except the term "chop?"


I"m sure its something simple...like lower your arm or something...but just in case..

please explain.

Re: wow
 

"Chop" is the sigal used with your raised arm to start the clock.

Also this:

http://www.deliaonline.com/pictureli...with-confi.jpg

:)

Well, OK... a little angle, but I was just saying that it's a little more clear to say the arm closer to the division line. Whatever works for ya'

Z

i thought it was a whirl of the finger while your "arm closer to the table," is in the air?

The actual motion of the signal used to chop in time varies quite a bit.

But the term "chop" refers to the signal meant to start the clock.

so I could "twirl my finger," as long as I had the correct arm raised and performed the action at the correct time, then?

I think you may be referring to the unauthorized signal that some officials use to indicate that a free throw violation occurred by the shooter when their free throw attempt did not hit the rim.

Z

Sure, if that's how they do it in your area and in the leagues you work, then twirl away :)

thank you sir. In my area, they dont follow the rules at all, actually. Not wanting to get anyone in trouble, but its pretty sad. Thats why I'm here.

[/B][/QUOTE]

Well, OK... a little angle, but I was just saying that it's a little more clear to say the arm closer to the division line. Whatever works for ya'

Z [/B][/QUOTE]

so you use the arm closest to the division line which would be the right arm if you are on the left end of the court facing the table??? can you still see the players that are not on the line back around the top of the key elbowing each other????? periffeal(sp) vision is blocked by that arm and makes it hard to see.... imho, i think the left arm on the left side facing the table is better to use???
any other opinions and reasons?????

not saying either is better, just wondering who does what and why?? i have been taught that way...

Awww, c'mon now, you're just pretending to be dense (or to quote a great statesman from the south: "another stupid yankee :D ).

[/B][/QUOTE]Well, he was right anyway about that stoopid yankee. Now he's got a whole 'nother state he can piss off.

I've never had my arm block any of my peripheral vision. (I must hold it really straight :D) and that is why I stand pretty much parallel to the sideline in 2-person rather than angled like I do in 3-person. If I turn at an angle in 2-person, I'm not even giving peripheral vision to anyone behind the top-of-the-key. I don't raise my arm until the ball is released and once it's released, my primary responsibility is the shooter and the lane players opposite. (we all know that in 2-person you have to make some trade-offs from time-to-time).

I was always taught to use the arm closest to the division line (for the count and the chop) not only to avoid distracting the shooter but also because it's easier for the timekeeper to see.

Z

Well, OK... a little angle, but I was just saying that it's a little more clear to say the arm closer to the division line. Whatever works for ya'

Z [/B][/QUOTE]

so you use the arm closest to the division line which would be the right arm if you are on the left end of the court facing the table??? can you still see the players that are not on the line back around the top of the key elbowing each other????? periffeal(sp) vision is blocked by that arm and makes it hard to see.... imho, i think the left arm on the left side facing the table is better to use???
any other opinions and reasons?????

not saying either is better, just wondering who does what and why?? i have been taught that way... [/B][/QUOTE]

Your arm is only raised on the release of the FT. Not sure how it could interfere with viewing the players above the kay. Turn a little left or right to eliminate the issue if it is really a problem.

Arm away from shooter's field of vision is the only way to do it (and that is the arm closest to the division line).

so you use the arm closest to the division line which would be the right arm if you are on the left end of the court facing the table??? can you still see the players that are not on the line back around the top of the key elbowing each other????? periffeal(sp) vision is blocked by that arm and makes it hard to see.... imho, i think the left arm on the left side facing the table is better to use???
any other opinions and reasons?????

not saying either is better, just wondering who does what and why?? i have been taught that way... [/B][/QUOTE]

Your arm is only raised on the release of the FT. Not sure how it could interfere with viewing the players above the kay. Turn a little left or right to eliminate the issue if it is really a problem.

Arm away from shooter's field of vision is the only way to do it (and that is the arm closest to the division line). [/B][/QUOTE]

Yes - unless you're raising your arm before the FT is shot (which you should not be doing) then the shooters field of vision has no bearing on this. That arm is raised for the benefit of the table.

As for the wrist flick, I already told you I use the hand that is closest the opposite sideline so it is *not* the only way. And if you do the wrist flick such that your leg hides it there's no need to be concerned with the shooter's field of vision.

And if you completed "Walking and chewing gum at the same time 101" it won't be a problem.

you are just to the left of the top of the key, 3 feet off of the 3 pt line, turned a little at an angle...the right arm WOULD be in the way to see, scorers table, and anything going on around midcourt...your not raising the arm until the ball is released anyways, how could it interfere with the shooter....you are stepping in/down on the shot too, to cover rebounding position etc. So you have to be able to make sure no one throws a cheap shot and if you turn your head a little to the right with your right arm up you have no vision thru your arm...nothing is happening to the left so why not use the left arm and it's out of the way.. I THINK, my opinion, that the left arm would be better to use on left side..and the right on the right end of the court

getting a little testy here guys. The bottom line is that the official's manual does not specify which arm(s) to use and arguments can be made for either/both. Do it how you were trained and/or how is accepted in your area.

Z

yes good arguments for both, not getting testy, just like getting other opinions!!! every assignor has their way they like it, so i guess that is the way we do it.. everyone have a good weekend, throw it high and straight!!!

I'm a little unclear here, but:

1) If we're talking about the count, that should be diwn by your side; a little wrist flick, so that shouldn't interfere with your peripheral vision.

2) If we're talking about the hand raised getting ready to chop in the time, then either you have A LOT more peripheral vision than I do, or your hand isn't straight up. Ans, since you're stepping down and watching the opposite lane line, and checking to see if the ball hits the rim, and moving your vision to watch the nearer side for rebound fouls, .... there's not much chance you'll see anything much beyond the three point arc anyway.

If it's really a concern, tell your partner you'll be watching the buffoons in the BC and s/he's got the entire FT responsibilities.

Oh, I think it's coming back to me now...this may not be in the manual but in the officiating guidebook. I KNOW that it is in <em>some</em> NFHS or NASO publication. In that case, it's NOT the "only" way to do it as I stated earlier but more of a recommended way.

But if you do the wrist flick such that your leg hides it, why do it at all? Isn't the point of the wrist flick for the count to be visible?

1. Because it's required
2. It is visible.

To the fans? Again, why bother? Do you indicate the number of FTs so that it's hidden too? :)

Again, I bother because it's required.

And we're not talking about indicating the number of free throwa, are we?