"You can't call that

[just another ref]

this late in the game." VB game tonight. Team A trailed by 8 to 12 most of the night but made a run in the last 2 minutes and got close. A turnover and a long 3 and we now have a 1 point game with less than 10 seconds to go. A is out of timeouts so B inbounds the ball, a long pass to midcourt followed by a foul with 00:01 showing on the clock. (old clock, no tenths) Here's where it gets interesting. Partner calls intentional foul. This foul took place right in front of A's bench, so now, after the free throws, we get to inbound the ball at the spot. Coach A now took a little swipe at my partner, something to the effect of "he doesn't even watch basketball on tv." I also heard the word sh*t in there somewhere, but I thought. ":01 and let's go home." A's 6'6" center stepped up to pressure the 6'0" guy taking the ball out. I waved my hand over the plane, as I usually do, handed the ball to B and stepped back. By the count of 3 A's big guy had stepped up and had both arms over the line above the elbow, hands almost out over B1's head. Bracing for the expected cries of "Mickey Mouse, etc." I blew the whistle and gave the warning. Instead, Coach A calmly said, "Yeah, that's right," and turned to direct his player, "straight up....don't reach over," or whatever. Give ball to B1, start to count, A1 stepped back up and did the exact same thing again. The last thing I wanted in this situation was a T, but I saw not much choice.
Thought Coach A was gonna cry. He kept saying over and over, "You don't call that this late in the game." So when do you call it? The more I think of it, I'm not even sure exactly what it was he meant. Maybe since it's only a second left that the call or lack thereof was meaningless anyway. But if that is the case, why would he not make his man back up.
Okay, let me hear from the important, knowledgeable people here. (you know who you are) Was what I did correct, unthinkable, or somewhere in between? As always, feed back is greatly appreciated.

[Nevadaref]

Not sure that I am one of those important people here, but I don't have a problem with what you did. You gave the warning for delay the first time and the kid was still silly enough to do it again! The coach knew it and didn't make sure that his player didn't repeat his violation?!?
Sounds like you didn't penalize them for only an inch either. They certainly can't say that they didn't have fair warning.
They need accept the consequences like men.
As for your partner's intentional foul call, I can't comment. I would have needed to be there and see the play.

PS Look at the bright side, at least you got to inbound OPPOSITE the table after the last 2 FTs!

[tomegun]

You did the right thing.

Who are those important people? I think I know some of the people you are talking about but keep in mind, there is a difference between knowing the rules and applying the rules. Using someone with a large number of posts to legitimize what you did will not always result in the best advice.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by tomegun

Who are those important people? I think I know some of the people you are talking about but keep in mind, there is a difference between knowing the rules and applying the rules. Using someone with a large number of posts to legitimize what you did will not always result in the best advice.

I agree. Anybody with over 500 posts is clueless and doesn't know how to apply the rules. Ignore them completely. Always.

Case in point: the post above this one. 500+ posts. Clueless. Ignore it.

[Nu1]

I'm not sure I followed all the way along in the scenario, but here's my attempt...

1. You have a game with 1 second on the clock
2. If team B made both shots from the intentional foul, they're now up 3 points
3. Player from A comes across the throw in plane and is warned.

IMO, if you don't stop player A from doing this again it would be wrong. It's possible (if I have the above facts right) that pressure from player A causes a bad throw and someone from A grabs the inbound, chucks a prayer-3 pointer that ties the game. (Maybe not probable, but possible.)

So, you have to do something about the throw in plane violation. Your choice to warn again or call the T (although by the rules it's a T). I think you were responsible in the way you handled it.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

I agree. Anybody with over 500 posts is clueless and doesn't know how to apply the rules. Ignore them completely. Always.

Case in point: the post above this one. 500+ posts. Clueless. Ignore it.

[just another ref]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

The point of this was not to start a debate of who was important and who was not. This was merely a light-hearted,
tongue-in-cheek remark. JR and Tony, I would be very interested in both your thoughts on this game ending, if you have any.

[just another ref]

Originally posted by Nu1
I'm not sure I followed all the way along in the scenario, but here's my attempt...

1. You have a game with 1 second on the clock
2. If team B made both shots from the intentional foul, they're now up 3 points
3. Player from A comes across the throw in plane and is warned.

IMO, if you don't stop player A from doing this again it would be wrong. It's possible (if I have the above facts right) that pressure from player A causes a bad throw and someone from A grabs the inbound, chucks a prayer-3 pointer that ties the game. (Maybe not probable, but possible.)

So, you have to do something about the throw in plane violation. Your choice to warn again or call the T (although by the rules it's a T). I think you were responsible in the way you handled it.

Actually, they missed both free throws on the intentional, and made 1 of 2 on the T, so a faint glimmer of light remained until the final horn. Realistically, I felt if he throws it in, the game is over. What concerned me most was the added pressure causing a 5 second violation, in which case A would have had a chance.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by just another ref
[/B]

The point of this was not to start a debate of who was important and who was not. This was merely a light-hearted,
tongue-in-cheek remark.
[/B][/QUOTE]JAR, I knew that your remark was a throw-away, tongue-in-cheek one. The response wasn't, imo.

As for how you handled it? What Nevada Ref said. I can't really think of anything that you could have done to handle the situation better.Good job on your part, JAR.

[David M]

Originally posted by Nu1


So, you have to do something about the throw in plane violation. Your choice to warn again or call the T (although by the rules it's a T). I think you were responsible in the way you handled it. [/B]

I believe it is not a choice to warn again. The second delay results in a T.

[Mark Padgett]

Why are you questioning it. Your actions insured that the outcome of the game was determined by the players. That's as it should be. Good job.

[ref18]

Originally posted by just another ref
. Coach A now took a little swipe at my partner, something to the effect of "he doesn't even watch basketball on tv." I also heard the word sh*t in there somewhere, but I thought. ":01 and let's go home."

I don't know about the rest of you, but that would be an automatic T in my book, just my opinion, and I haven't had to deal with a situation like that yet, but if the score is that tight, and the coach uses profanity towards an official I'm giving an automatic T, well actually, it doesn't matter what the score is, that's always an automatic T.

As for the T you did hand out you did it perfectly, you gave a formal warning, and you enforced it. The coach knew what was gonna happen, there's nothing wrong with what you did.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by just another ref
The point of this was not to start a debate of who was important and who was not. This was merely a light-hearted,
tongue-in-cheek remark. JR and Tony, I would be very interested in both your thoughts on this game ending, if you have any.

JAR, you handled just as I would have. No problems here.

But hey, what do I know? I'm guilty of having more posts than anyone on the site. I guess that makes me the worst official of all!

[tomegun]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

JAR, you handled just as I would have. No problems here.

But hey, what do I know? I'm guilty of having more posts than anyone on the site. I guess that makes me the worst official of all!

My comment didn't say that the number of posts makes someone a good ref or a bad ref. If someone has 6 posts or 600000 posts and two people have different opinions who is right? Many times it is assumed that the person with more posts is correct. I'm not even talking about something I've been involved with rather something I've read on this board and others. I've seen it on boards that have nothing to do with basketball so it isn't exclusive to this board. To be honest I didn't even realize BktBallRef had that many posts until he posted it. I will not agree with anyone just because they are the "veteran" of the board. I will base my opinion of someone based on information put out on a consistent basis. One of the worst things about this type of communication is the lack of intended emotion. Too bad some people take things the wrong way.

[Exkalybr]

I think what you did took guts, some refs don't have the stones to call something like that with one second left, I applaud your professionalism and your judgment. I just hope that the coach will learn something from this, I doubt it, he will probably think the ref was over officiating for that situation, I could not disagree with a coach more on this one. Great Job!!