Is there another solution?

tjones1 · #1 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 16, 2004, 12:20am

Pre-game talks I state this. Me: "I want you all to know that nothing good is going to happen after a whistle, once a whistle goes, it's over and done with. Ok?" Team A: "Ok" Team B: "Ok"....... 2nd qrt. Whistle. I call a foul on Team A for reaching in on B, B starts to throw elbows towards the player I called the foul on. So I T'd the player on Team B. Correct thing to do?

blindzebra · #2 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 16, 2004, 03:00am

Quote:

Originally posted by tjones1
Pre-game talks I state this. Me: "I want you all to know that nothing good is going to happen after a whistle, once a whistle goes, it's over and done with. Ok?" Team A: "Ok" Team B: "Ok"....... 2nd qrt. Whistle. I call a foul on Team A for reaching in on B, B starts to throw elbows towards the player I called the foul on. So I T'd the player on Team B. Correct thing to do?

First, you will be grilled for using a no-no myth, there is no such thing as reaching in. A can hit B, hold B, or push B while attempting to play the ball, but reaching for the ball is nothing.

Don't use that term, or others like over the back, because they don't exist in the rule book.

Did B hit A with any elbows? Was it an actual attempt to connect or just the twisting, "Get off me," move?

We were not there, so it could be nothing more than stepping in with a stop on the whistle guys to calling a flagrant T on B for fighting.

ChuckElias · #3 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 16, 2004, 09:58am

Tanner, BZ dinged you for bad terminology, I'm gonna semi-ding you for your pre-game talk. This is just my own opinion and lots of people disagree, so you have to find what works for you and use that. But -- for me -- I think that the less said, the better. The captains aren't listening to you and they don't really care what you say anyway, and they definitely aren't going to go back to the bench and say, "Ok, guys, the ref told me. . . ."

My pre-game talk is: "Guys/Ladies, shake hands. I'm Mr. Elias, this is Mr. Jones. Blue, who's your floor captain? White, who's your floor captain? Good luck tonight."

As far as your situation with the elbow, that's a "had to be there" moment. If the kid turned and swung, and you thought he was trying to hit the other kid, then I have no problem with the T.

Grail · #4 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 16, 2004, 10:11am

I'm not sure it's a T. If it was more than a swinging elbows VIOLATION than it is a flagrant foul. Can't see that this situation is a technical. I certainly wouldn't penalize for them not paying attention in the pregame conference.

tjones1 · #5 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 16, 2004, 10:25am

Ok, I guess technically I called a hold on A. What she did was reached around and grabbed onto her arm. And the only reason I stated that in my pre-game is because I was dealing with 7/8th girls. Chuck, I usually do keep it short, cause like you said they ususally aren't paying attention anyways!

Mark Padgett · #6 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 16, 2004, 01:03pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Grail
I'm not sure it's a T. If it was more than a swinging elbows VIOLATION than it is a flagrant foul. Can't see that this situation is a technical. I certainly wouldn't penalize for them not paying attention in the pregame conference.

Can you have a violation on the floor during a dead ball? No. But you can have only a technical for contact or no contact during a dead ball. It may or may not be flagrant and you would only call it for contact if it was intentional and/or flagrant- otherwise, it's a no-call, not a violation.

blindzebra · #7 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 16, 2004, 02:20pm

Quote:

Originally posted by tjones1
Ok, I guess technically I called a hold on A. What she did was reached around and grabbed onto her arm. And the only reason I stated that in my pre-game is because I was dealing with 7/8th girls. Chuck, I usually do keep it short, cause like you said they ususally aren't paying attention anyways!

Chuck's right about keeping it short and sweet in the captain's meeting.

I've found that the best way to avoid this type of play, or rough stuff on a held ball, is to close in blowing your whistle.

The old Fox 40 at close range is a great deterent for rough play. Kids are not thinking about fighting when they are turning away from a whistle.

tjones1 · #8 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 16, 2004, 03:34pm

Right, I usually cover the basics and get it over with. However like I said, it was 7/8th girls, and well those can get very nasty (sometimes), so I stated that to let them know.

Different question: Is sportsmanship really going down the tubes this quick? I only ask this because I've had to T two different teams for slamming the ball down and throwing a fit. Not trying to brag or whatever. Just amazes me and kind of makes me sad to see the youth thinking they can get away with stuff like that.

-tjones1

Mark Padgett · #9 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 16, 2004, 08:21pm

Here's my entire pre-game talk:

"Hi guys. Any rough stuff and you're gonna be gone. Any questions?"

tjones1 · #10 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 16, 2004, 09:25pm

I'd like to be able to make it that short but we have to state good sportsmanship and ask their coaches if their players are properly equiped, and a spokes person. Other than that, you can talk about whatever for 15 minutes or end it right there. I've seen both, I prefer the second one!

blindzebra · #11 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 16, 2004, 10:52pm

In Arizona we have Pursuing Victory with Honor. The entire program is in place to emphasis sportsmanship, the majority of schools in the state follow the program.

We are required to remind the captains and coaches of it in our meetings.

Even with that, you can still keep it short, "Captains please remind your teams about proper sportsmanship, and when you see poor behavior, step up and handle it for us."

"Who are my speaking captains?" "Any questions?" "Have fun."

Takes less than a minute.

tjones1 · #12 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 16, 2004, 10:57pm

Quote:

Originally posted by blindzebra
In Arizona we have Pursuing Victory with Honor. The entire program is in place to emphasis sportsmanship, the majority of schools in the state follow the program.

We are required to remind the captains and coaches of it in our meetings.

Even with that, you can still keep it short, "Captains please remind your teams about proper sportsmanship, and when you see poor behavior, step up and handle it for us."

"Who are my speaking captains?" "Any questions?" "Have fun."

Takes less than a minute.

blindzebra, do you have that copyrighted? If not, I'd like to start using that! Very well said.

ChuckElias · #13 (**permalink**) Tue Nov 16, 2004, 11:18pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Tanner
state good sportsmanship and ask their coaches if their players are properly equiped, and a spokes person

Quote:

Originally posted by blindzebra
"Who are my speaking captains?"

Don't ask for a "speaking" captain. They don't need any encouragement to speak to you. Get a "floor captain" or "captain".

The facts are that (1) they'll talk to you, regardless of what you call them, and (2) the officials will probably answer a respectful question, even if it doesn't come from the "speaking" captain.

No need to get a "spokesperson". Just my opinion.