OK, I have one for you.

Let us look at all the college football Head Coaching positions at the D1 level (about 118) and see how many Black head coaches are out of that number? Then tell me how many of those schools have African-American Presidents and African-American Athletic Directors? Then tell me why there are only about 4 Head coaches at the D1 level coaching a sport in which the kids that look like them literally dominate the sport. So you are telling me that all the Pro Hall of Fame players and well known athletes that have gone through all these programs whether they are in the deep south to the far west, you cannot find at the very least 10-12% of the coaching positions in a sport where people of color have dominated?

Now out of all those D1 conferences, how many of them have African-Americans as the supervisor of officials?

Now I am not talking about jobs in the larger society. I am only talking about a part of society where opportunity and talent can be proven on the field or in an arena. Where folks of color can prove they are the fastest, the strongest or the most successful by what they literally do on the field and you cannot find more than 4 African-Americans to coach a sport where in many cases 70% of the football team is African-American? Now what part of a generalization am I talking about?

Peace

Know what? If you woulda just "T"ed up the little sh*t and then forgot about it, you wouldn't have had 5 pages of trying to fix the world's woes.

Sometimes the worst thing that you can do out on the court is try to over-think whatinthehell you're doing and what your job really is. Imo, this situation is a prime example of that. Obviously, Dan's solution worked for Dan too. That's the bottom line, no matter what.

This was exactly why I quoted Rut's comment above. Thanks, Rook.

I thought what Rut was saying was that the black culture doesn't discriminate against women as much as the white culture. I know this seems like a stereotype, but it's not. It doesn't talk about individuals or the specific feelings one gives or receives from other individuals. It talks about the culture. In the white culture, there is still quite a lot of residual discrimination against women. There may be plenty of individuals that don't have those feelings, but the overall atmosphere and pattern is for women to be held back, or oppressed. That isn't nearly as true in the black culture. Traditionally, the black woman has received much mre respect, and holds much more authority than the white woman does. Does that mean that each black person respects all women more than each white person respects all women? Of course not. But the overall atmosphere in the society of black people is that in general, women have more standing and receive more respect. That's a broad generalization, and a simplification, but it's not a stereotype or a racist remark -- it is a sociological observation.

Juulie,

Black culture? White culture? Did someone kick all the Asians, Hispanics & other assorted mutts out of the country while I wasn't looking? And what society have you been observing that leads you to believe that there is *A* black culture and *A* white culture?

Juulie,

Right on.

Peace

Oh, for Pete's sake, Dan, just because I'm being simplistic doesn't mean you can be. There isn't A black culture or A white culture, just as there isn't AN American culture. There are tendencies and they are real. Would you be happier if I called them sub-cultures or communities? Asians and Hispanics have their communities, too, as do Greeks and Italians in some parts of America. Then there are Catholic and Jewish sub-cultures, and yes, a couple or three Quaker communities, a gay subculture, a Southern subculture. I wasn't being reductionistic, just thinking that I didn't need to be defining each word. Maybe my sociology isn't as mainstream as I thought.

Nope.

I would be happier if you just didn't make overly broad and simplistic statements that paint entire swaths of people with the same brush.

That would make me happy. :)

Then move to Iraq. Move to China or even parts of Africa. Then you will not have to worry about what the different people do and behave based on race and ethnicity. Now you might have some social cultural differences and tribal differences to deal with, but it would not offend you in any way.

I know one thing, African-Americans did not vote for Bush. And their feeling about the man has nothing to do with who he puts in his cabinet. ;)

Peace

Nope.

I would be happier if you just didn't make overly broad and simplistic statements that paint entire swaths of people with the same brush.

That would make me happy. :)

[/B][/QUOTE]

Okay, bad wording. I really didn't get enough sleep last night for reasons having to do with various diseases, drugs, and a certain 6-year-old. So if I sound a little crusty here, it's just an exaggeration of the impatience I start to feel when someone doesn't understand what I'm trying to say. I'm not talking about "broad swaths of individuals." You know as well as I do that "society", "culture", "structure" or whatever you call it exists separate from any individual or even separate from many individuals. There are certain statements that can be made that lump people together into a group, but don't stereotype the individual. To use a very large example, Suppose you see someone at the dinner table who holds his fork in one hand, his knife in the other, and never puts either down during the meal. He pushes his food onto the back of the fork to convey it to his mouth, and he cuts his meat without switching the fork from one hand to the other. You would suspect that this person was European. Does that mean that everyone in Europe eats like this? Of course not. But there is a cultural tendency that way. Americans handle their utensils differently. All Americans? Naturally not. But the tendency is there. That's the kind of principle I'm applying when I talk about black culture and white culture. Can we agree on the principle of cultural trends, even if we might disagree about what the content of tjpse trends are?

"Move to Iraq....." please tell me you didn't just say that .
Do you mean to tell me that not one black person voted for Bush ??? I didn't realize we voted as a color...not did I realize that you are the annointed spokesman for all black people .
I understand that you may have some issues in your area but as Dan mentioned , please don't use a roller when painting (Sorry Dan I added my own twist).

Jeff, please take this within the spirit it is intended: go f@ck yourself.

Heck...I just figgered' I was being a lazy redneck!

Thanks, Ms. rainmaker, now I can claim European upbringing! ;)

I will keep it to officiating for a second.

Name one white official that has facial hair at the D1 or pro levels of any league?

I cannot name one.

Guess what, I can name several African-Americans that do.

Johnny Grier--NFL (there is another Black Referee or White hat that has a mustache; I just do not know his name right now).

Steve Paman--Big Ten Football

Danny Crawford--NBA

Tom Rucker--D1 Official retired

Donny Gray--D1 Basketball Official, Big Ten, ACC and Conference USA to name a few.

(There is even one in the Big East, but I do not know his name)

Now would someone tell me that there is not something there based on culture? Now as an African-American, most of the Black males I know have some type of facial hair regardless of profession and economic status. Now why is that? Could it be that facial hair does not come with the stigma or societal issues in the African-American community that it seems to be in the larger society of non-whites?

I am sure you can find someone that is African-American that likes Rock and Roll music and thinks groups like KISS and Led Zeppelin were the best band ever. But most of the African-Americans that I come in contact with on a very regular basis seem to like 50 Cent, Ludacris or older groups like the O'Jays, Patty Labelle, Teddy Pendergrass and Smokey Robinson. I am sure there are all kinds of people that like both of these types of music, but it seems that African-Americans are drawn much more to Hip Hop and R&B than they ever will to a group like Aerosmith. Maybe we are all the same in our values and expectations for our lives and what we believe in, but I have yet to see people of my culture rely on what the larger society thinks is good music, food or values. You can always find an exception to a rule, but it is called an exception for a very good reason. ;)

Peace