We had quite a discussion (OK argument) last night at our meeting concerning question #99.

99. It is not a violation on a throw-in if A1 jumps from A's frontcourt and while airborne, catches the throw-in and then passes to A2, who is standing in A's backcourt.

We all know 9-9-3...On a throw-in, if a player of either team is first to gain control while airborne, no violation occurs if the player jumped from frontcourt and lands in backcourt.

Two questions:
1)What rule reference can I quote that shows it is in fact a violation for an airborne player jumping from frontcourt on a throw-in and passing to a teammate in the backcourt?

2)I heard NFHS might be changing this ruling, in the future, so that question #99 would be True...has anyone else heard this?

When A1 caught the ball the throw-in ended. Also when A1 caught the ball player and team control was established. A1 last position was in front court ergo a pass to A2 in backcourt results in a backcourt violation.

9.9.1 -- I think this explains fairly clearly why this is a violation.

It seems to me that 9.9.3 is an exception to the team control/front court-back court rule designed to make it less confusing. It has always seemed to me that it should be a violation for a player to jump (from front court)/catch/and land in back court. 9.9.3 is just an exception to that rule.

We also have discussed this one due to 9-9-3. At this point, our association has decided not to call this a violation based on the fact that it is not a violation on a desig. spot throwin to jump from front court, catch, and land in backcourt. If the situation involved a pass from the backcourt, then yes, it would be a violation.

Yeah...except there is no team control on a throw-in, as stated in 9-9-1.

Think about this:

If A1 jumps from front court, catches, and lands in backcourt, it is not a violation and he can then pass to A2 in backcourt! What sense does it make to say that if he gets rid of it while in the air, and it is caught by A2 in backcourt, it is a violation? If he just held on a little longer until he landed, then it wouldn't be! This seems very incosistent. Am I missing something here?

and just for kicks
 

And while we are at it, we should also point out 9.9.2 is for when team A has the ball in the backcourt and loses the ball and it hits a referee in the front court and bounces back into the backcourt.... still a violation... since 9.9.1 and 9.9.3 was talked about, i didn't want to leave 9.9.2 out in the cold..... :)

other than the "N" in insconsistent? sorry.

Right. However the throw in has ended when A-1 caught the pass and as per rule 4-12-2 team control was established.

Team control is established as soon as the player catches the ball (in the air).

...and I agree with your statement. Except it is hard to argue why A1 can land in the backcourt (9-9-3) but cannot pass to the backcourt.

Use R9-9-3 as your rules reference. This is an exception to R9-9-1 that applies only to the player of the team not in control that actually catches the pass/jump ball/throw-in while airborne from the front court to back court. This exception specifically applies to that player only, not to his teammates also. His teammates are still covered under R9-9-1.

I agree that this doesn't make any sense!!

I think it should be a violation in both cases--I think it is just an exception so that officials/players have one less thing to think about during a throw-in.



***Think about this:

If A1 jumps from front court, catches, and lands in backcourt, it is not a violation and he can then pass to A2 in backcourt! What sense does it make to say that if he gets rid of it while in the air, and it is caught by A2 in backcourt, it is a violation? If he just held on a little longer until he landed, then it wouldn't be! This seems very incosistent. Am I missing something here?***

not missing anything..it should be changed...
but the rule now is just saying A1 was established in frontcourt, then left floor still with frontcourt rules, caught the ball and passed it into backcourt before establishing him/her self in the backcourt!!! If they wait till they are established in the backcourt by landing on the floor, then they can do whatever they want pass or whatever to anyone because they are now backcourt!!!! Before the pass they were front court!! that is why they can't pass it to back court in the air!!

Thanks JR...that will have to do.
"The exception only applies to the player catching the throw-in...not to his teammates."
I would still like to see that spelled out a little better in the rules or case book.

Nope, what you've written above is exactly how the rule works for any airborne defender intercepting a pass, or an airborne player grabbing a tipped jump ball or a throw-in and going from front court to back court. Might not make sense, but it's what we gotta use.

I agree--that's the rule. I don't think anyone's debating that. You bring up a good point that it does apply to any situation involving the first player to establish player/team control after a situation where there is not team control.

You bring up a good point that it does apply to any situation involving the first player to establish player/team control after a situation where there is not team control.
[/B][/QUOTE]Should be first <b>airborne player going from front to back court</b>, Coach. Almost the same situation---defender intercepts a pass with one foot on ground in front court, and then steps into the back court with the other foot after establishing player/team control---> backcourt violation.

Btw, welcome to the forum, Coach.

Should be first <b>airborne player going from front to back court</b>, Coach. Almost the same situation---defender intercepts a pass with one foot on ground in front court, and then steps into the back court with the other foot after establishing player/team control---> backcourt violation.

Btw, welcome to the forum, Coach. [/B][/QUOTE]

Right--I understood it that way--just failed to include that detail in my previous post.

Thanks.

Yes, I've heard this. I think it might have been a proposal this past year.

Interestingly, NCAA moved away from that interp to the current FED interp (the exception applies only to the airborne player catching the pass / jump).

Have you ever seen this exact situation mentioned in a case book during a previous year?

Why 99 is true
 

I think of it this way when it comes to the division line during a throw in...

It disappears. As in a jump ball (see case 9.9.1 sit b), the division line only appears once a player with the ball has established themselves on the floor (not where they took off from). And both the jump ball and throw ins are referenced in 4.12.6

If you read 9.9.3 closely, it notes "...player legally jumping from his/her frontcourt...return to the floor with one or more feet on backcourt...it makes no difference whether the first foot down is in the frontcourt or backcourt."

As for the "pass" twist, it still doesn't matter as again, the line doesn't appear until a player who has contact with the floor has possession of the ball.

This basically all comes down the fact that there is no team control during a throw in.

So I answered 99 true (at least using this line of thought).

Re: Why 99 is true
 

Unfortunately, the correct answer for #99 is false according to the NFHS answer key sheet. And that's what counts. And R9-9-3 says it's an exception for a "player", not "players"

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Nov 11th, 2004 at 01:06 PM]