A 2-10 toughie

[Adam]

In practice, this isn't going to happen. The only violation that I can think of that could possibly happen during a try is swinging the elbows (or leaving the playing area for an unauthorized reason, but isn't that still a T in fed?). 3 seconds isn't applicable on a try, and a kick would be utterly rediculous on a successful try.
As for the elbow thing, I've never seen anyone even come close to this violation who didn't have the ball.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally posted by rwest
But it still does not make sense to have a rule that would penalize a team more when a violation occurs than when a foul is committed. In this limited scenario it would have been better if the player had push the defender. At least then the basket would have counted and if not in the bonus and not deemed a flagrant or intentional foul, team B wouldn't even get a free throw. Just ball out of bounds at the spot of the foul.

I'm not sure what a viable alternative would be. What if the ball did not become dead? Then when the basket is made, B gets the ball anyway. Where is the penalty?

[ShadowStripes]

From the "Don't put you-know-what into the game" part of the unofficial officials' handbook:

How about holding the whistle long enough to let the ball go through the basket before blowing it? Why would you put a non-contact violation into a 2 point game with 15 seconds to go? Even if the elbow swinging was excessive, the split-second hold of the whistle would've kept you from taking points off the board while still giving you time to address that situation as soon as the ball went through the hoop.

[rwest]

Originally posted by Back In The Saddle
I'm not sure what a viable alternative would be. What if the ball did not become dead? Then when the basket is made, B gets the ball anyway. Where is the penalty? [/B]

The same can be said for a foul. When A2 commits a foul while A1's shot is in flight, we still count the basket and team B gets the ball out of bounds. Where is the penalty on Team A? If they are not in the bonus, there is no penalty, right?

One of the things that makes referring Basketball, or any sport for that matter, difficult is when the mechanics for similar events are different. In this case we have an offensive foul committed while the ball was in flight and we count the basket if made. Then in another similar situation we have an offensive violation while the ball is in flight and we kill it right away. It seems to me that the two should be handled the same.

But after reading your post and thinking about it some more, I can see your point. At least with the foul situation, the foul counts toward the team fouls and if the team were in the bonus they would get a 1-1.

The violation counts toward nothing, so to be punitive you would have to kill it. Ok, you convinced me. I'm wrong!

Thanks!
Randall

[Kelvin green]

One person noted that swinging elbows happens most of the time when a player has the ball.

If there is a ball in the air and there is a person wildly swinging their elbows away from the play I would seriously be looking at a non-contact T, or a unsporting T..

My bet it that is an intentional act...and not the violation type of swinging

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by ShadowStripes
From the "Don't put you-know-what into the game" part of the unofficial officials' handbook:

How about holding the whistle long enough to let the ball go through the basket before blowing it? Why would you put a non-contact violation into a 2 point game with 15 seconds to go? Even if the elbow swinging was excessive, the split-second hold of the whistle would've kept you from taking points off the board while still giving you time to address that situation as soon as the ball went through the hoop.

From a cosmetic point of view, this works.

However, remember that the ball becomes dead when the violation occurs, not when the whistle is blown. If a coach starts questioning you as to that, well - good luck.

[FrankHtown]

A similar violation is if a teammate of the free throw shooter steps in the lane before the ball hits the rim. You call that violation immediately and wipe the free throw if good.
Even though the ball has been released, and still in the air, the play is immediately stopped.