base line throw in

[scat03]

while A1 has ball for throw in on base line, he fumbles the ball so that the ball stays out of bounds, while he retreives the ball he steps in bounds with out the ball. call or no call?

[JRutledge]

You have a violation.

Peace

[Damian]

If I see a fumble out of bounds, I would consider stopping the play and starting over.

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by Damian
If I see a fumble out of bounds, I would consider stopping the play and starting over.

Why would you do that? If your handoff to the thrower was clean and he clearly possessed the ball (ie didn't muff it), why would you help him out when he fumbled it? Do you know of a rule that permits you to do this? I don't.
You wouldn't stop the game if a player holding the ball inbounds fumbles it away, right? So, why does it matter to you that this player is out-of-bounds?

In short, if the thrower leaves the 3 ft. wide designated spot before he releases the ball on a throw-in pass, it is a violation. Touching the court inbounds is considered leaving the spot.
If your play happens following a goal, so that the throwing team may run the END LINE and also may have the initial thrower leave and come back or a teammate replace him, no violation has been committed and the play is legal.

[JugglingReferee]

Originally posted by Nevadaref

Why would you do that? If your handoff to the thrower was clean and he clearly possessed the ball (ie didn't muff it), why would you help him out when he fumbled it? Do you know of a rule that permits you to do this? I don't.
You wouldn't stop the game if a player holding the ball inbounds fumbles it away, right? So, why does it matter to you that this player is out-of-bounds?

In short, if the thrower leaves the 3 ft. wide designated spot before he releases the ball on a throw-in pass, it is a violation. Touching the court inbounds is considered leaving the spot.
If your play happens following a goal, so that the throwing team may run the END LINE and also may have the initial thrower leave and come back or a teammate replace him, no violation has been committed and the play is legal.

Maybe he will re-consider after reading your post.

I agree, if the player had the ball cleanly, and fumbled it himself, and not becuase of a poor toss by the ref or other non-player cause, it's his fault. Let him deal with it.

[Damian]

As in all cases, there may be situations where I think it merits this. Not all cases. If you need a rule for everything, get a bigger book. I call it good game management.

The original post did not state that the hand off or pass was clean.

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by Damian


The original post did not state that the hand off or pass was clean.

Nice try, but actually it does. The original poster says that A1 "fumbles" the ball. This means that he had it in his grasp then dropped it. See the definition 4-21.
That definition is from the "little" Rules Book that the NFHS publishes. Perhaps they don't use it down in Texas because everything has to be bigger.

The ONLY situation in which you would be justified in giving the ball back after a fumble is when a FT shooter loses it. And that is only because the Case Book says to give it back.

When it comes to a throw-in, what you advocate is just wrong. And to say that it is "good game management" is pretty silly, since if you have a knowledgable opposing coach all that you have done is upset him because you just cheated his team. I don't see how that helps your game.

[Edited by Nevadaref on Nov 8th, 2004 at 05:29 AM]