I will be doing a presentation on the topic "Moving up," this Saturday. I have the presentation all finished and set. I just wanted to know if anyone had any suggested points, comments or topics that I might add or make sure I mention.

I just need some general information. I do not need specific things to your state. I just need some tips that I might mention and talk about.

Thank you in advance.

Peace

Some "non-officiating" aspects of moving up:

Being available time-wise
Being in the right physical location
Being honest with your assignors
Being good with people and confident of yourself.

Here are some things
 

1. Hang out with successful people, not compainers
2. Work hard every game. You never know who is watching
3. Go to camps and work in the off season
4. Help train people that are not at your level.

Professionalism. On and off the court.

"Remember, there are no guarantees. No one has promised you that you deserve to move up. If you don't make it, don't turn into a complainer."

Just remember that there are different definitions on what "moving up" means. We have great officials in our assoc who have no college aspirations. Some of our older officials are quite content with doing a partial schedule of games and don't even have HS district or state playoff aspirations anymore. Some of our officials have limited availability and will probably never "move up" to the highest HS levels but they all help us do a good job with our schools and fill all our games with quality refs.

Z

Good post Z.

"Moving up" means different things to different people, even assuming you want to "move up".

Z,

I am not trying to define what it means for everyone. I am addressing a group that is not quite at the varsity level. This portion of the camp is not for guys that are trying to work kiddy ball the rest of their career. It is for people that want to advance in the HS system as well and possibly beyond. I will address things like you suggest, but I am not talking to people that only want to work kiddy ball.

The type of official that you are describing is usually the exception. Most officials that are members of HS Associations have goals to advance to the varsity to the NBA. Most people do not have a real grasp as to how to get to the next level and this is one of the reasons for this camp.

Peace

Don't forget to study, and not just the rulebook. Go to games on nights you aren't working, or stay for the Varsity contest and observe those that have already moved up. There is a lot to learn, both positive and negative, by just watching others work.

Be genuinely happy for your colleagues who do move up. When "promotion" passes you over, behave the way you want others to act when you move up and they get passed over.

Here's some creative tension to give the audience: Be content with where you are right now - in terms of working every game you get as if it's the biggest game of the season...but don't be complacent - find out what you need to do to be a better official and work on those things...

13 Keys to moving up the ladder from Don Dailey (Gerry Pollard's Camp - June 2004)
1) Know thyself - Don't dxpect to move up if you're not the best where you are right now.
2) Do it for your reasons.
3) Be a complete person.
4) Family is important.
5) Don't be a legend in your own mind.
6) Practice professionalism.
7) Tell it like it is.
8) Take care of your health.
9) Communication is golden.
10) Improve your knowledge.
11) Be a team player.
12) Control your attitude.
13) Loyalty & integrity are the keys.

Wow..."kiddy ball"? I remember you being a very insightful contributor, sounding like you are someone who is on top of his game and an excellent official. But "kiddy ball" sounds a little arrogant.

The stud officials cannot call every varstiy game. The stud players that the stud officials hope to call at the D1 level had to start somewhere.

Maybe something to mention is to be careful not to belittle the contributions of everyone that loves our game...be they player, coach or official. Don't walk around like you are the greatest thing to step on the floor. Since you aren't, others will be turned off by you.

Larry, you are offended by the term "kiddy ball?" :rolleyes:

Is there a bug up your behind today?

For your information Larry I gave this presentation in a shorter version last week. Not a single person was offended or came up to me and said anything about being upset. The reason this topic is being used because guys that "work kiddy ball" are always asking officials at higher levels how they get there. They ask guys how to get to the college level. They wonder how they get in the playoffs. That is what my presentation is about.

Also, there was an assignor that held a meeting this past spring that was optional to those that worked his conference. There was about 40-60 official showed up to this meeting, all to know how they can improve their schedule in this particular assignor's conference. I attended to see what was being said and just get some information. The 2 hour meeting was a bunch of people asking "how they get a varsity schedule?" It was not "how do I work more Grammar school ball?" I am sick and tired of guys like you that seem to get offended because someone does not show interest in working a JH game the rest of their career. This camp is geared towards HS officials that want to advance or learn from experienced officials so they can work more games at the higher level. This track of the camp that my presentation is in is geared towards these types of officials. If they are offended by that, they probably should keep their money and work the many kiddy ball games that will be going on that day. It is not any more admirable to work a JH game as it is a varsity game. I only work around 3 games a week and that is enough with work and other responsibilities in my life. I apologize that is not enough for you.

Peace

Copy?
 

Any chance we can get a copy of that presentation? Is it in powerpoint or will you be videotaping?

It will be on Power Point.
 

Sure. I can email it to you after I am finished. It will have some specific information as it relates to IHSA Procedures and the playoff system. But if you give me an email, I can send it to you after Saturday. I am still working on some points and will not be done until later in the week.

[email protected]

Peace

Come on.
 

That has to be some of the biggest bunch of crap I have heard in a long time Larry. If someone feels small by working what they want, then they need to find another hobby.

Rut,

Set very specific goals and specific expectations. Then tell them to find out how to accomplish those goals.

Rut,

I'm sure you have this in your presentation already based on past posts, but make sure they know how important it is to be decent, genuine and tactful with their fellow refs. In our association, we have a couple guys who are just real buttonheads. They call a pretty good game, but they have managed to rub everyone the wrong way over the past few years (usually off the court, sometimes on the court). They are always rated below their true officiating ability (we do peer ratings here).

I'm not one who buys into the schmoozing stuff (I ascended without joining the Friday night after-game beer gathering that many of our officials attend) to advance, but if you're a jerk to other officials enough times, it will definitely bite you in the butt. No different than being a buttonhead to your co-workers at a job... it will get you in the long run.

Z

Red and Blue States I guess.
 

Z,

What are you talking about?

Sometimes the more you keep posting, the more I realize that you are on another sphere than anyone I come in contact with.

I have never been around anyone that gets upset over the term "kiddy ball." My first game was a 5th and 6th grade and that was the term used when I accepted the game. I have used the term ever since in many capacities over the years. I have never had anyone get upset when I used the term.

I guess there are some people that just need to lighten up and stop taking this so seriously. Remember this for the most part a hobby. It is not anything more than that. And most of the people I talk to in meeting after meeting are approaching assignors and veteran officials as to how to get games outside of kiddy ball. Even the young officials lessen the experience they have when they introduce themselves to a large group. There was just someone last night that said, "I only have worked kiddy ball." Amazingly, not a single person gasped or tried to throw things at him.

Peace

Rut,

What are <b> you </b> talking about? I didn't get offended about kiddy ball. You posted and asked for input to your presentation on this thread. I gave a post originally trying to help you out. Take it or leave it, I don't care either way. You got into a debate about your term of kiddy ball with somebody else, not me. Your rant about somebody getting offended by that term has nothing to do with me so how did I get dragged into that?

Then earlier this evening, I read the replies to your original post again and it made me think of some guys in our group who really want to move up but have alienated everyone that could help them do that. So I posted again, thinking you might have some of those type in your area too.

Instead of appreciating my attempts to help you, you go off on me and get all defensive. Did you think I was talking about you? I wasn't. I wouldn't insinuate that it was you in some vague post. Believe me, if I wanted to address something you did or said, I'd do it directly not by insinuation

Good grief, sorry for trying to help. I'll just avoid your threads from now on. Debating rules and scenarios is one thing, but when you request input and I try to help and you go off on me... geez, I give up. Just plain bizarre.

Z

You will be OK.
 

Relax, take a deep breathe. It will be alright.

Peace

Is it the meds or the election that has you so angry? :p

Z

The election was to be expected.
 

I am high on life. Why would I be upset with an election when I know how stupid the people of this country can be? I find it amazing that the very people that got actually hit with the terrorist attack voted against the very person that claims he has to support the troops and a leader on the fight against terror. Then all the states that have no chance to get hit with a terrorist attack voted for this clown. I guess it goes to show why people do not want to go to Mississippi?

That is OK, it will be their kids dying.

Peace

One thing which is key, asking

How will any assignor know you want to move up if you don't ask. The worst they can do is say no, but if you don't ask, you'll never know.

Also, try to go a bit on factors beyond your control which may stop you from moving up, i.e. demanding job, or the big one, age.

I've been working kiddy-ball for the last 4 years, with the hopes of someday getting a high school game, I've learned the rules, gone to camps but the one thing that's keeping me from moving up is my age. If there are any younger officials try to let them know their time will come one day, but they might have to wait a little longer for it.

My grandmother has a saying,

"get in there like a dirty shirt" meaning market yourself. That's another key part to moving up, if no-one knows who you are then you won't get too far.

Re: The election was to be expected.
 

Sigh.

Somebody tell Jeff this is why his side lost so badly.

I'm too confused wondering why he thinks it's OK for someone's kid to die.

Please, please, please, let's not discuss the war or the election. I'm depressed enough already.

You asked for it.....you got it.......TOYOTA!!!
 

My life was barely affected by 9/11 as many other people that did not live in New York if they are honest with themselves. I am not a person that is fearful of terrorist coming to get me. It is not going to be my children that will die in Iraq or any other place in the world because we had to get Saddam Hussain.

I just like people to get what they ask for. You wanted the man that did not was AWOL and had the nerve to criticize those that did like Gore, Kerry and McCain. You got exactly what you asked for, I hope you get it.

Happy war. ;)

Peace

JRutledge...Dude, chill.

I wasn't "offended" by the term kiddy ball...just think it sounded arrogant. Just my opinion, geez...we can agree to disagree on that.

Your first post did not indicate that this presentation was to be at a camp targeting officials that want to advance to a higher level...maybe if I had been reading threads the last year I would have known that. That context certainly makes a difference, at least to me. I have seen similar presentations given at a camp for officials with less than 3 years experience. That is a group, for the most part, that have to work JH, sub-varsity and rec ball just to get experience. Given that many areas need officials it would probably not be a good idea to demean and belittle the level they will be forced to work.

Trust me, I have no desire to work JH ball. Probably will work some this coming summer because my son is interested in officiating after this semester of grad school. Figure I will work with him and offer any help I can. Other than that, I won't solicit that level...may bail out a freind...but wont solicit.

It is great that you want to help others reach their goals. Mine is a good varsity schedule and playoffs...but that is only because I started late and had to take time off because of job conflicts. By the time I would be ready to attempt a move past that, I would probably be too old for an assignor to consider.

Sorry if my tone was offensive. Hope your presentation goes well.

Larry,

I do not know of any camps that are not geared to moving up or learning how to move up. Most of the camps in my area are geared almost entirely to 3 Person mechanics when you work on the floor. This camp is geared toward levels, but the back drop is so officials can learn what it takes to get better and get a better schedule in the future.

BTW, this is a HS camp. The officials here are not going to this to maintain their Junior High schedules. I work some JH over the year in season and in the off season. When I work any lower level game, I am asked questions about how to move up or giving recommendations to help those move up. This is the reason this topic was suggested. BTW, it was not my idea. I just agreed to speak on the topic.

Peace

Presentation copy
 

My email is [email protected]. I would love a copy of it. Thanks.

Kris

Re: You asked for it.....you got it.......TOYOTA!!!
 

I guess you're not going to back up your own words and tell us why you believe it's OK for kids to die.

Par for the course I guess...no surprise here.

I already explained. But I did not make the comment for your approval.
 

Dan,

I never said it was OK for them to die, but they are going to die. And in my mind it will be for the very wrong reason and based on a lie. As an official if I screw up I might get suspended or fired for a simple mistake. We had a presentation last week by a D1 Official that showed video tape of one of his conferences. He showed a play where an elbow was given by a post player. The player not only threw their elbow once, but three times. The all 3 officials (only two had coverage) were suspended multiple games for the action. No one died, no one lost a limb. Not the player that took the elbow lost some teeth, but that pails in comparison to losing a life to a war based on WMDs who we have yet to find or account for. But then again, it was Saddam that killed 3000 people in the World Trade Center on 9-11

The people of this country spend more time criticizing officials for mistakes that cost no one lives or their livelihood. But then these same individuals voted in a person that has not fired one person or held those responsible for their missteps that cause lives to be lost. Now over 1000 and counting. So guess what, you got what you deserve. And when there is another attack, you can blame John Kerry or any Democrat for it happening. Better yet, let us blame Gore and Clinton for what happen on Bush's watch. I thought this man was bringing back the respect and dignity to the White House? So much so that papers all over the world are calling our people dumb and stupid and not supporting an issue that "W" claims is an issue for folks around the world.

Happy war!!

Peace

I agree with rainmaker -- that's enough politics in this forum.

What is more important.
 

Politics and the world are way more important than this officiating thing. ;)

Peace

Re: What is more important.
 

Agreed. So if you want to talk about them, go somewhere else.

Considering we can talk about everything else here that has nothing to do with officiating, why is this different? You guys allow all kinds of discussion and you say nothing then. So why not here? ;)

Peace

Since we're already off-topic on a political slant, maybe this is the time to ask this question. Rut, could you explain your tagline to me?

I'm not trying to be critical or anything like that. In fact, I think I may have an idea what Maher was trying to say. But help me out. How can a person be correct and wrong?

This comment was basically about Ralph Nader. He agreed with many of the issues that Ralph stood for, but felt that he was wrong taking votes away from an individual that was in a better position to win. So Ralph Nader was right on many of his positions about government and corporate America, but wrong to run when he knows damn well he is not going to win.

My Mom used to say something similar about pedestrians coming in the middle of the street with cars racing by. People had the right of way to be in the middle of the street, but they would be dead if someone hit them. Her comment was, "you can be right and be dead at the same time."

Peace

Re: The election was to be expected.
 

I'd just like to know what's wrong with Mississippi?

Goes to show that with all your political gab, you really don't have much of a grasp of what's really going on in the rest of the country.

We have a lot of good things in our fine state, most importantly, we have some great athletes and sports programs.

As far as the rest of the world, most of those in our armed forces get considerable amounts of training in little ole MS.

Thanks
David

Re: Re: The election was to be expected.
 

There must be something wrong, because a lot of people I know moved completely away from there. I will let you figure it out.

Peace

I'd like to look at your powerpoint as well. I am working on one of my own about professionalism. I'll either post it to my web site or email it later. A lot of the same thing. Professionalism is one of the main things pointed out earlier about moving up.

But I think the key to moving up is not who you know, but rather who knows you. I can know the right people all day long but if the right people do not really know who I am, then they can't promote me. Make sure the right people see you call games. Make sure you are getting advice from the right people. Make sure you are available when the right people need someone to fill in a spot. Let them get to know you. That is why getting to a camp during the summer is critical to moving up. All the right people are there for you to get to know and see you work.

That's pretty much what I thought. You can't be correct and wrong in the exact same way, but you can be correct about something, but wrong in what you do with the information.

'Course, it turns out that Nader didn't really take all that many votes away from anybody. Time for him to give up the cause or find a successor to support.

Re: Re: Re: The election was to be expected.
 

HUH????

And a lot of people I know have moved completely away from Illinois that fine state??? And what does that prove?

That is really a statement with some clout. Kind of like a John Kerry speech, you can say anything and some people will actually believe you, (well actually not a lot but a few will)

And let's see your presentation is on what?

Thanks but I'll have to pass.

throw me some more cornbread and turnip greens.

Thanks
David

Re: Re: Re: Re: The election was to be expected.
 

[QUOTE
throw me some more cornbread and turnip greens.

Thanks
David
[/B][/QUOTE]

What exactly does that mean?

While I did have some fun in Mississippi, I will tell you that most would have rather kept Lowry open (Denver) and closed Keesler. You do have some fine HS basketball down there and have been using 3-person for about 9 years. The only problem I have with Illinois is half of the people say they are from Chicago when that is a lie. I'm not saying that about Rut.
As far as the election, wow, I guess it takes some street sense to recognize a hustler. Game recognizes game and I recognize the biggest hustler of them all! You can have a reason and/or an excuse for everything but some things are so obvious it is silly. Rut is exactly right when he mentions people dying. It can be avoided. We should be crying foul!

Tom,

That is the very reason people do not want to live in Mississippi. He just proved my point. ;)

No one wonder they have to hire coaches of African-American decent in order to try to change the image of the major universities in that State. It was also Ole'Miss that had to drop the Confederate Flag in order not be seen in a negative light. And there has been constant debate over their mascot for some time now as well.

Thank you David for proving the very point I was making. You did good. :D

Peace

Not to be labor
 

As usual Rut doesn't know what he's talking about, only what he heard on ESPN.

Could you give me the reference as to the hiring of our new coach at MS State - I would like to ask Coach Croom about that allegation. Strange that I haven't heard those sentiments from him.

Who's Ole Miss?

Thanks
DAvid

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: The election was to be expected.
 

What exactly does that mean?

While I did have some fun in Mississippi, I will tell you that most would have rather kept Lowry open (Denver) and closed Keesler. You do have some fine HS basketball down there and have been using 3-person for about 9 years. The only problem I have with Illinois is half of the people say they are from Chicago when that is a lie. I'm not saying that about Rut.
As far as the election, wow, I guess it takes some street sense to recognize a hustler. Game recognizes game and I recognize the biggest hustler of them all! You can have a reason and/or an excuse for everything but some things are so obvious it is silly. Rut is exactly right when he mentions people dying. It can be avoided. We should be crying foul! [/B][/QUOTE]

Actually I was talking about Camp Shelby.

Currently we have about 3000+ troops in training there.

Thanks
David

Re: Not to be labor
 

You are so right, my conversations with people on issues related to this issue only come from ESPN.

You must be one of those Southerners that think Slaverey ended all the racial divide in this country. There are two

You are right. Go ask Coach Croom why in 2004 (40 years after the end of Jim Crow) why he is the first non-white coach to ever be hired in the SEC in the history of that conference in the sport of football? I would really like you to ask him so he can laugh completely in your face.

You are so right. All my comments are based on the media. Not that I have family friends that have actual taught in Mississippi for years as a professor. Not that I have met people that went to school there or were born in that State. I got all my information based on ESPN. You are right. African-Americans do not have conversations with each other or have writings about the south and their systems of education either. Only ESPN could possibly talk about racial issues in the state of Mississippi.

Peace

Thank you for all the responses. The information was valuable and gave me a couple of talking points to bring up.

Happy war to all those that think this country is going in the perfect direction. Hope you are happy with all the death and destruction that is to come. Funny how Bush now makes an assault on Fallujah right after he wins back the White House. But then again, you got what you deserve.

;)

Peace