Back court violation? Test question

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by rainmaker

i think you guys are talking about two different plays, aren't you? The original play in this thread talked about a player of the same team as the in-bounder catching the ball in mid-air, which is what Chuck is describing. Frank is quoting from the book about a player of the opposite team from the player who is throwing in. They are two different situations.

It doesn't matter, as the principle/rule is the same. The NF rule allows an airborne defender or a airborne teammate of the thrower to catch a pass, after having left the floor in FC and land in BC. The rule does not allow him to pass to a teammate in the BC.

[FrankHtown]

Ok, if a player lands in the backcourt, after making this catch, why can't he pass to a person in the backcourt? If a player lands in the backcourt under these conditions,I'm going to start a 10 second count...or should I? Either he's in the backcourt, or he is not.

Perhaps rainmaker is correct. This may only apply to a team B player, intercepting a team A pass, or throw-in.

[rockyroad]

Originally posted by FrankHtown
Ok, if a player lands in the backcourt, after making this catch, why can't he pass to a person in the backcourt? If a player lands in the backcourt under these conditions,I'm going to start a 10 second count...or should I? Either he's in the backcourt, or he is not.

Perhaps rainmaker is correct. This may only apply to a team B player, intercepting a team A pass, or throw-in.

If s/he lands in the backcourt, they CAN pass it to someone else in the backcourt, because they have no established their position legally in the bc...when they are in the air and pass the ball to someone in the bc, that's illegal and they have committed a bc violation...

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by FrankHtown
Ok, if a player lands in the backcourt, after making this catch, why can't he pass to a person in the backcourt?

That's not what we're saying.

The AIRBORNE player can't catch a pass and then pass the ball to a teammate in the BC before LANDING.

[Lotto]

Originally posted by Lotto

That's true and has been true for years (in NCAA).

I'm replying to my own post because I misread what bob jenkins wrote. Here's what's the NCAA rulebooks says.

If a pass is caught by an airborne defender B1 who has jumped from B's front court, the defender can legally land with one or both feet in B's back court. (That's the play I thought was being described. This is legal by an explicit exception 9-12.5.)

However, if airborne B1, who jumped from B's front court, catches and passes before landing to B2 in B's back court, we have a back court violation. (We have all of the ingredients of a back court violation---team control by B when B1 catches, the ball has B front court status when B1 touches, B1 was the last to touch, and B2 is the first to touch. The exceptions don't mention this play, so it's a violation. This is the play that's actually described.)

Finally, if airborne B1, who jumped from B's front court, touch passes or deflects the ball before landing to B2 in B's back court, there is no violation. (Since B1 never holds the ball, B1 never has player control, so B doesn't get team control until B2 catches the ball.)

[Nevadaref]

Bob and Tony,
Even though written quite differently, as far as I can tell, both the NFHS and NCAA rulings on backcourt are exactly the same. By that I mean that no matter what play occurs, the same call should be made in both levels of play. Do you guys agree?

[BktBallRef]

I couldn't tell you. Haven't researched the NCAA rule. I'll let Bob handle that.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
Bob and Tony,
Even though written quite differently, as far as I can tell, both the NFHS and NCAA rulings on backcourt are exactly the same. By that I mean that no matter what play occurs, the same call should be made in both levels of play. Do you guys agree?

I agree. But, ...

The NCAA at one time (apparently) had a ruling to the effect that airborne A2 could catch a throw-in pass and then pass the ball to A3 in the backcourt. This play would be legal. A similar ruling applied to the other exceptions (jump ball, defensive player).

When the NCAA rule book was rewritten / reorganized about 4 (?) years ago, that ruling didn't make it into the book. Neither did anything explicit about the play not being allowed. You could go through some contortions of the wording (the specifics of which escape me right now) to get to the ruling still being allowed. RefMag's "Rules for Refs", for one, had this play listed as a "Rules Difference" even after the rewriting of the book.

This year, the NCAA added an article to the BC violation rule to address the situation. But, the article only talks about two of the three exceptions (jump ball and throw in).

So, if you believe that the NCAA allowed the "second pass" before, and you read the new rule literally, you come to the conclusion that the "second pass" is not allowed on a throw in or a jump ball, but is still allowed by the defensive player.

In FED, the "second pass" has not been allowed for many years (10+, I think).