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-   -   Would you have T`d the coach? (https://forum.officiating.com/basketball/16185-would-you-have-t-d-coach.html)

Jay R Fri Oct 29, 2004 04:19pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Mark Padgett
Quote:
Originally posted by Jay R
Last night. A-5 is driving to the basket and there is a pass and crash. I call a charge on A-5.
I hope you didn't call this as a player control foul.
No I did not. That`s why I said a charge. However it was a college game and the college mechanic is to use a player-control foul signal on all offensive fouls.

Jay R Fri Oct 29, 2004 04:27pm
It was not a scrimmage. It was an exhibition game between two small colleges.

I did give the coach a T. After the game, I was discussing the play with my partners. I mentionned that I was not certain if the frustration was at me or the player. My partners said it was a good technical either way. I was having some doubt. I called the technical foul instinctively. It was probably that fact that led my uncertainty afterwards.

mick Fri Oct 29, 2004 04:40pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Jay R
...the college mechanic is to use a player-control foul signal on all offensive fouls.
I'm thinking that's a team control signal. :cool:
mick

mick Fri Oct 29, 2004 04:43pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Jay R
I called the technical foul instinctively.
There ya go, Jay R !
Didn't even hafta think about it.
Easy call.
Good call.
mick

Rich Fri Oct 29, 2004 05:21pm
Re: T's at Scrimmage
 
Quote:
Originally posted by rwest
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref

A coach has to be a really out of control jerk for me to T him in a scrimmage.
I'm not sure I agree. The purposes of scrimmages is to simulate real game situations and for everyone involved to get ready for the season: coaches, players and refs. During a scrimmage do we call a block/charge the same way we would during the regular season? Sure, we do. We better. We're being evaluated. Are we not going to T up players and eject them for fighting? Sure we are. So why protect the coach, when we won't protect the players? Why are we more lenient on T's when in comes to the coaches behavior? What warrants a T in regular season should warrant a T during pre-season. I mean, a coach has to cross a line before I T'm him up. I don't have a quick trigger.

Dan, I was of the same opinion as you until earlier this year when I was involved in a scrimmage game. We were having problems with the home team coach. During a break we made a comment to the evaluator that we wished we could T him up. The evalutor replied, I'd have already T'd him. Guess what happened when play resumed and the coach slammed the bench! TWEET!
I'll never forget a former supervisor of mine -- when told an official whacked a coach during a scrimmage, he said:

"You did what? If you have to whack a coach during a scrimmage, you put the ball in the table and go to the house. Nobody should work for free and take crap."

And that's been my theory ever since.

Dan_ref Sat Oct 30, 2004 10:40am
Re: Re: T's at Scrimmage
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
Quote:
Originally posted by rwest
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref

A coach has to be a really out of control jerk for me to T him in a scrimmage.
I'm not sure I agree. The purposes of scrimmages is to simulate real game situations and for everyone involved to get ready for the season: coaches, players and refs. During a scrimmage do we call a block/charge the same way we would during the regular season? Sure, we do. We better. We're being evaluated. Are we not going to T up players and eject them for fighting? Sure we are. So why protect the coach, when we won't protect the players? Why are we more lenient on T's when in comes to the coaches behavior? What warrants a T in regular season should warrant a T during pre-season. I mean, a coach has to cross a line before I T'm him up. I don't have a quick trigger.

Dan, I was of the same opinion as you until earlier this year when I was involved in a scrimmage game. We were having problems with the home team coach. During a break we made a comment to the evaluator that we wished we could T him up. The evalutor replied, I'd have already T'd him. Guess what happened when play resumed and the coach slammed the bench! TWEET!
I'll never forget a former supervisor of mine -- when told an official whacked a coach during a scrimmage, he said:

"You did what? If you have to whack a coach during a scrimmage, you put the ball in the table and go to the house. Nobody should work for free and take crap."

And that's been my theory ever since.
Free?

Nope, I don't think so.

Rich Sat Oct 30, 2004 12:17pm
Re: Re: Re: T's at Scrimmage
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
Quote:
Originally posted by rwest
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref

A coach has to be a really out of control jerk for me to T him in a scrimmage.
I'm not sure I agree. The purposes of scrimmages is to simulate real game situations and for everyone involved to get ready for the season: coaches, players and refs. During a scrimmage do we call a block/charge the same way we would during the regular season? Sure, we do. We better. We're being evaluated. Are we not going to T up players and eject them for fighting? Sure we are. So why protect the coach, when we won't protect the players? Why are we more lenient on T's when in comes to the coaches behavior? What warrants a T in regular season should warrant a T during pre-season. I mean, a coach has to cross a line before I T'm him up. I don't have a quick trigger.

Dan, I was of the same opinion as you until earlier this year when I was involved in a scrimmage game. We were having problems with the home team coach. During a break we made a comment to the evaluator that we wished we could T him up. The evalutor replied, I'd have already T'd him. Guess what happened when play resumed and the coach slammed the bench! TWEET!
I'll never forget a former supervisor of mine -- when told an official whacked a coach during a scrimmage, he said:

"You did what? If you have to whack a coach during a scrimmage, you put the ball in the table and go to the house. Nobody should work for free and take crap."

And that's been my theory ever since.
Free?

Nope, I don't think so.
That association would have everyone work a scrimmage or two as a donation -- and you'd potentially get evaluated at them.

rainmaker Sat Oct 30, 2004 12:34pm
In Portland, we don't do scrimmages for free...

but we aren't paid in money. Instead, we get brownie points with the assignor, a little exercise, and a chance to say to a coach a week after the scrimmage, " Last Wednesday, you WANTED me to call that on your players!" Definitely worth it's weight in gold!

Dan_ref Sat Oct 30, 2004 08:25pm
Re: Re: Re: Re: T's at Scrimmage
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
Quote:
Originally posted by rwest
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref

A coach has to be a really out of control jerk for me to T him in a scrimmage.
I'm not sure I agree. The purposes of scrimmages is to simulate real game situations and for everyone involved to get ready for the season: coaches, players and refs. During a scrimmage do we call a block/charge the same way we would during the regular season? Sure, we do. We better. We're being evaluated. Are we not going to T up players and eject them for fighting? Sure we are. So why protect the coach, when we won't protect the players? Why are we more lenient on T's when in comes to the coaches behavior? What warrants a T in regular season should warrant a T during pre-season. I mean, a coach has to cross a line before I T'm him up. I don't have a quick trigger.

Dan, I was of the same opinion as you until earlier this year when I was involved in a scrimmage game. We were having problems with the home team coach. During a break we made a comment to the evaluator that we wished we could T him up. The evalutor replied, I'd have already T'd him. Guess what happened when play resumed and the coach slammed the bench! TWEET!
I'll never forget a former supervisor of mine -- when told an official whacked a coach during a scrimmage, he said:

"You did what? If you have to whack a coach during a scrimmage, you put the ball in the table and go to the house. Nobody should work for free and take crap."

And that's been my theory ever since.
Free?

Nope, I don't think so.
That association would have everyone work a scrimmage or two as a donation -- and you'd potentially get evaluated at them.
In any event I can't imagine walking out on a game I accepted. And certainly not because I couldn't handle the coach.

Rich Sun Oct 31, 2004 09:36am
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: T's at Scrimmage
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
Quote:
Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
Quote:
Originally posted by rwest
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref

A coach has to be a really out of control jerk for me to T him in a scrimmage.
I'm not sure I agree. The purposes of scrimmages is to simulate real game situations and for everyone involved to get ready for the season: coaches, players and refs. During a scrimmage do we call a block/charge the same way we would during the regular season? Sure, we do. We better. We're being evaluated. Are we not going to T up players and eject them for fighting? Sure we are. So why protect the coach, when we won't protect the players? Why are we more lenient on T's when in comes to the coaches behavior? What warrants a T in regular season should warrant a T during pre-season. I mean, a coach has to cross a line before I T'm him up. I don't have a quick trigger.

Dan, I was of the same opinion as you until earlier this year when I was involved in a scrimmage game. We were having problems with the home team coach. During a break we made a comment to the evaluator that we wished we could T him up. The evalutor replied, I'd have already T'd him. Guess what happened when play resumed and the coach slammed the bench! TWEET!
I'll never forget a former supervisor of mine -- when told an official whacked a coach during a scrimmage, he said:

"You did what? If you have to whack a coach during a scrimmage, you put the ball in the table and go to the house. Nobody should work for free and take crap."

And that's been my theory ever since.
Free?

Nope, I don't think so.
That association would have everyone work a scrimmage or two as a donation -- and you'd potentially get evaluated at them.
In any event I can't imagine walking out on a game I accepted. And certainly not because I couldn't handle the coach.
Well, they weren't games. No score would be kept and the coaches could stop play anytime they wanted to.

One guy was just out of control and an official whacked him. The coach laughed, kept right on harassing the official, and told him he didn't care what the official did because his school wasn't in the area our association served.

In the end, one guy left after getting berated for another five minutes or so.

And that school wasn't invited back for the scrimmage the following season.

Now where I live we get paid for the scrimmages and the coaches treat them like any other game.

Dan_ref Sun Oct 31, 2004 10:39am
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: T's at Scrimmage
 
Quote:
Originally posted by Rich Fronheiser
Quote:
Originally posted by Dan_ref
In any event I can't imagine walking out on <strike>a game</strike> an assignment I accepted. And certainly not because I couldn't handle the coach.
Well, they weren't games. No score would be kept and the coaches could stop play anytime they wanted to.

One guy was just out of control and an official whacked him. The coach laughed, kept right on harassing the official, and told him he didn't care what the official did because his school wasn't in the area our association served.

In the end, one guy left after getting berated for another five minutes or so.

And that school wasn't invited back for the scrimmage the following season.

Now where I live we get paid for the scrimmages and the coaches treat them like any other game. [/B]
I say it's a game, you say it's not a game...sigh...OK, I fixed the words in my original post.

And I would never, ever let a coach run me out of a gym.


TravelinMan Sun Oct 31, 2004 07:33pm
Quote:
Originally posted by Mark Padgett
Quote:
Originally posted by Jay R
Last night. A-5 is driving to the basket and there is a pass and crash. I call a charge on A-5.
I hope you didn't call this as a player control foul.
Mark, that's a great point. Please elaborate. Thanks.

ChuckElias Sun Oct 31, 2004 08:25pm
Quote:
Originally posted by TravelinMan
Quote:
Originally posted by Mark Padgett
Quote:
Originally posted by Jay R
Last night. A-5 is driving to the basket and there is a pass and crash. I call a charge on A-5.
I hope you didn't call this as a player control foul.
Mark, that's a great point. Please elaborate. Thanks.
TravelinMan, the play is described as a "pass and crash". Once the dribbler passes the ball, s/he no longer has player control. Therefore the crash can't be a PC foul. This is a common foul, and if B is in the bonus, then the defender who got "crashed into" will shoot FTs.

Jay R Mon Nov 01, 2004 08:09am
Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
Quote:
Originally posted by TravelinMan
Quote:
Originally posted by Mark Padgett
Quote:
Originally posted by Jay R
Last night. A-5 is driving to the basket and there is a pass and crash. I call a charge on A-5.
I hope you didn't call this as a player control foul.
Mark, that's a great point. Please elaborate. Thanks.
TravelinMan, the play is described as a "pass and crash". Once the dribbler passes the ball, s/he no longer has player control. Therefore the crash can't be a PC foul. This is a common foul, and if B is in the bonus, then the defender who got "crashed into" will shoot FTs.
Not in NCAA. Team control foul, no FTs.

ChuckElias Mon Nov 01, 2004 11:14am
Quote:
Originally posted by Jay R
Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckElias
the play is described as a "pass and crash". Once the dribbler passes the ball, s/he no longer has player control. Therefore the crash can't be a PC foul. This is a common foul, and if B is in the bonus, then the defender who got "crashed into" will shoot FTs.
Not in NCAA. Team control foul, no FTs.
Good point. I was assuming it was a HS scrimmage.


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