New Pet Peeve

Mark Dexter · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 31, 2001, 06:08pm

I've decided my pet peeve for the remainder of the season is going to be the 30-second TO phantom rule.

You know, the one that says players must remain standing during a 30?

Doing book away last night, coach calls a 30, girls start to sit down. Coach tells them they have to stand, to which I reply they don't.

At this point, the home timer and scorer (who I thought actually read the book) go bezerk on me! Their explaination - we have had officials who make them stand. Before I could counter with a rule reference (or example - if the referee doesn't call traveling does it mean traveling isn't a rule?) the timer basically tells me to shut up.

Anyone else as sick of this as I am? I'm considering offering a $10 challenge to anyone who can find this "rule" in this year's rulebook.

Sven · #2 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 31, 2001, 06:34pm

Mark,

I always look forward to reading your posts. Like you, I keep the book as much as I officiate, and you bring another point of view to the game.

My question for you is: Right or wrong on sitting versus standing, why were you talking to the coach in the first place? Not trying to be smart with you. I've been in your shoes many times and have decided to keep my mouth shut.

Generally speaking, I'm one of the last persons from whom the coach wants to hear unsolicited comments. Whether it's the officials on the floor or a coach by the bench, the only time I'm talking is if addressed first by them or if there's a problem that I need to bring to someone's attention.

I understand that it's difficult to keep quiet when ignorance shows, but I think that's the best policy during the course of the game.

Opinions?

Sven

Mark Padgett · #3 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 31, 2001, 06:48pm

This is a little off the subject of the 30 second timeout, but it is on the subject of scorekeepers getting involved in the game (sort of). About three years ago, I called a technical foul on a kid for profanity. I had called a foul and he said the "S" word (to me). When I went to report it, the scorekeeper had his arms folded across his chest, staring at me. I reported it as a "technical foul for unsportsmanlike conduct - profanity" and the scorekeeper then said he was not going to mark it in the book. At first, I thought he was kidding. He then told me the kid was his son and "his son would never use profanity."

Since his kid was a junior in high school and looked fairly normal, I knew this was a lie

I asked him if he was serious - he said he was - so I told the coach that he would have to replace the scorekeeper. He didn't give me any problem, and the scorekeeper left relatively peacefully.

Yes, I reported him and I never saw him again, even in the stands at other games involving the same team.

Mark Dexter · #4 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 31, 2001, 10:06pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Sven
My question for you is: Right or wrong on sitting versus standing, why were you talking to the coach in the first place? Not trying to be smart with you. I've been in your shoes many times and have decided to keep my mouth shut.

It was my school's assistant coach - just trying to give us any edge I can legally give (especially down by 20 points with 2 minutes in the game).

In retrospect, I kinda said it more to myself than anyone else. (It was one of those nights - fan "OTB" me "no such thing"; fan "call it both ways!" me "red 14, 14 red", etc.)

Mark Dexter · #5 (**permalink**) Wed Jan 31, 2001, 10:10pm

Quote:

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
He then told me the kid was his son and "his son would never use profanity."

Since his kid was a junior in high school and looked fairly normal, I knew this was a lie

Are you insinuating something about high school students?

We have parents like this; thankfully none of them do book.

BTW, sometimes it is good for scorers to get involved in games. This same night, there was a boys JV game tied 41 with 10 seconds left. On boxing out after a FT, double personal foul was called. Official reported correctly, then almost had B1 shot FT's - horn, table explains. Then they line A1 up - horn, table explains again. Finally we went to an AP throw-in.

Kelly Kinghorn · #6 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 01, 2001, 12:28pm

I only have an NCAA rule book handy, but Rule 5-10-12 "During a 30 second timeout, players shall stand inside the boundary line." (emphasis mine)

Don't recall if the the NF rule is stated as clearly.

I'll take the $10 if you're offering.

ScottParks · #7 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 01, 2001, 12:46pm

Rule 5, Section 12, Article 5..... The full length time-out conference with player shall be conducted within the confines of the bench area.

I interpret this, since its the only reference I could find, that a 30 second time-out can be taken anywhere as long as the teams are ready at the second buzzer.

refjef40 · #8 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 01, 2001, 12:59pm

about scorekeepers getting involved.We had a local high school where the scorekeeper would shake his head vigorosly on almost every foul report against the home team.When this was mentioned to him by officials he would say no I don't.Finally after many complaints to our assoc. he is no longer around.

Indy_Ref · #9 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 01, 2001, 01:20pm

Quote:

Originally posted by parkssa
Rule 5, Section 12, Article 5..... The full length time-out conference with player shall be conducted within the confines of the bench area.

I interpret this, since its the only reference I could find, that a 30 second time-out can be taken anywhere as long as the teams are ready at the second buzzer.

Parkssa is right on it!!

Lotto · #10 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 01, 2001, 01:30pm

NCAA is the same as NF. Rule 5-10:

Art. 12. During a 30-second timeout, players shall stand inside the boundary line.

ScottParks · #11 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 01, 2001, 01:52pm

Quote originally from Lotto
-----------------------
NCAA is the same as NF. Rule 5-10: Art. 12. During a 30-second timeout, players shall stand inside the boundary line.
-----------------------

Lotto-
I can't find your reference anywhere in NFHS books nor can I find anything other than what I quoted above about full time-outs.

mikesears · #12 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 01, 2001, 02:05pm

Quote:

Originally posted by parkssa
Quote originally from Lotto
-----------------------
NCAA is the same as NF. Rule 5-10: Art. 12. During a 30-second timeout, players shall stand inside the boundary line.
-----------------------

Lotto-
I can't find your reference anywhere in NFHS books nor can I find anything other than what I quoted above about full time-outs.

NF:
I'm under the opinion that we treat the timeout rules as written. If the Fed wanted the teams to stand during 30-second timeouts, it would have been spelled out. NCAA actually spells out where players are to remain. Fed does not. I just want players ready to go by the second buzzer. I think this misconception comes from the 30-second timeout in college (and possibly Pro) ball. See http://www.GMCGRIFF.COM for this same debate

Mark Dexter · #13 (**permalink**) Thu Feb 01, 2001, 06:11pm

NCAA is not the same as NF (which is what I do - I should have mentioned that as a qualification for my challenge).

Like others have said, the only TO restriction is that a full must be taken "within the confines of the bench area."

I use that to say that a 30 could be held at the concession stand, as long as the players are ready at the second horn (of course, they won't be no matter where they sit/stand).