Test Question #40

[golfdesigner]

I am going thru NFHS Test and am looking at #40 and having tough time with it..at least finding a rule reference that would clarify..
I say T
"#40 - Ball becomes dead when B1 touches A1's ft try while the ball is on upward flight outside the cylinder.."

first, ball would not become dead because B1 crossed lane line before try hit rim or ended, violation would only be penalized if try missed..2004-06 handbook shows ft try ends when the attempt touches the floor or any player, so I would say True because ball doesn't become dead until it is touched..that is what causes ball to become dead..now I want to find rule reference that really covers this situation..

Or am I wrong on the T/F?

[BktBallRef]

The answer is true.

The question is describing goaltending.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
The answer is true.

The question is describing goaltending.

Can't have goaltending when a try is on its upward flight, can we?

[ChuckElias]

Not if it's a try for field goal, but we can if it's a try for a free throw.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Back In The Saddle

Can't have goaltending when a try is on its upward flight, can we?

9-12
A player shall not commit goaltending. Goaltending occurs when a player touches the ball during a field-goal try or tap while it is in its downward flight entirely above the basket ring level and has the possibility of entering the basket in flight, or an opponent of the free thrower touches the ball outside the cylinder during a free-throw attempt.

[Back In The Saddle]

Ahh, a clear-cut case of RTFM Has the definition always read that way? It's the first time I've noticed the bit about goaltending on a free-throw.

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by Back In The Saddle
Ahh, a clear-cut case of RTFM Has the definition always read that way? It's the first time I've noticed the bit about goaltending on a free-throw.

Chuck:

It looks like I am going to have to climb up into the attic to answer this one.

MTD, Sr.

[ChuckElias]

Stick with Alleve, my friend.

I don't think it's been GT for very long. I think I remember when the rule was changed to include "touching a FT outside the cylinder" was added to the definition of goaltending; so it was probably within the last 10 years or so. I'm just guessing, tho.

[Back In The Saddle]

Originally posted by Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.

Chuck:

It looks like I am going to have to climb up into the attic to answer this one.

MTD, Sr.

MTD, it ain't worth it for that. It has likely read that way for years and I'm just really unobservant.

However, if you're willing to go to the attic, I have a couple of historical questions. I'm writing up some stuff on the jump ball rule. When I was a kid we would jump all held balls. What year did that change (i.e., when did the AP arrive)? Well beyond my memory, a jump was held after every basket. When did that change? Any interesting reminiscences?

[Leggs45]

The answer is True.

A player cannot touch the ball on its' upward or downward flight on a FT if in the officials' judgement, they believe that the ball has a chance of going into the basket.

It is a Technical foul (Rule 10 Sec 3 Art 10).

[Stan]

Has anyone acually seen or called goaltending during a free throw attempt?

[jritchie]

don't see how it could happen with NFHS RULES because they can't leave the lane line till it hits the rim..but stranger things have happened...i myself have not seen it even attempted

[ChuckElias]

It can only happen if the defense does it. This is b/c the ball does not become dead during the FT when the defense commits a lane violation.

FT try is released.

B1 steps into the lane.

Delayed violation

B1 jumps and touches ball before ball touches rim.

Goaltending -- award 1 point
Tecnical Foul -- shoot two additional FTs

If the offense attempted to GT the FT, the play would be dead immediately when the player stepped into the lane, therefore the GT would be ignored. No T.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
It can only happen if the defense does it. This is b/c the ball does not become dead during the FT when the defense commits a lane violation.

....

If the offense attempted to GT the FT, the play would be dead immediately when the player stepped into the lane, therefore the GT would be ignored. No T.

Actually, I can think of a few ways where it could be possible for the offense to commit a live ball GT on a FT.

If there is a defensive lane line violation, a subsequent offensive player in the lane is NOT a violation. The ball remains live until the try is made or missed. That offensive player could still commit GT.

There are also a few FT shooters who line up non-center on the FT line. It could be possible for a player on the lane to touch the ball without having their feet cross the line before they touch the ball.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Camron Rust
If there is a defensive lane line violation, a subsequent offensive player in the lane is NOT a violation. The ball remains live until the try is made or missed. That offensive player could still commit GT.

Good point, Camron. I was assuming that the player doing the goaltending would be the first one into the lane, but that's not a valid assumption. Nice catch.