wrong basket

[CK]

I know this was on the board before. I also know I copied and pasted it to my note book. However after a computer crash, all of those wonderfull notes are gone. So here is my question. After a made basket, A1 makes a throw in to A2, who gets confused and starts a dribble towards B's basket, picks up the ball and shoots, hits the backboard and the ball goes in the wrong basket. The ball should be blown dead immediately when the ball hit the backboard for a double dribble violation and basket waved off, correct?

Thanks in advance

[TimTaylor]

Originally posted by CK
I know this was on the board before. I also know I copied and pasted it to my note book. However after a computer crash, all of those wonderfull notes are gone. So here is my question. After a made basket, A1 makes a throw in to A2, who gets confused and starts a dribble towards B's basket, picks up the ball and shoots, hits the backboard and the ball goes in the wrong basket. The ball should be blown dead immediately when the ball hit the backboard for a double dribble violation and basket waved off, correct?

Thanks in advance

Nope - basket counts for team B and A gets to try again - hopefully with better court awareness this time :-)

[eastcoastref]

Read NFHS casebook 9.5 and you'll see that the basket should count. It does not become a violation on A1 to throw it off opponent's backboard until A1 catches the ball without it touching another player first.

[jritchie]

if A1 shoots it off the backboard and misses you don't have a violation until A1 catches it and dribbles again, So A1 can pass it off the backboard to A2 and you wouldn't have a violation????

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by jritchie
if A1 shoots it off the backboard and misses you don't have a violation until A1 catches it and dribbles again, So A1 can pass it off the backboard to A2 and you wouldn't have a violation????

The ball touching the backboard is (nearly -- the exceptopn doesn't apply here) the same as the ball touching the floor (see 4-4-5).

So, rephrase your question to read, "So A1 can pass it off the floor to A2 and you wouldn't have a violation????" and the answer will be obvious.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by jritchie
if A1 shoots it off the backboard and misses you don't have a violation until A1 catches it and dribbles again, So A1 can pass it off the backboard to A2 and you wouldn't have a violation????

True dat.

[Adam]

Originally posted by jritchie
if A1 shoots it off the backboard and misses you don't have a violation until A1 catches it and dribbles again, So A1 can pass it off the backboard to A2 and you wouldn't have a violation????

Close, but not exactly.

If A1 has already used her dribble before attempting to shoot at the wrong hoop, then it's a violation as soon as she catches the ball off of the opponent's backboard.

[CK]

Thanks for the 9.5 case reference. After reading it and 9-5-3, I get it. Was looking at 4-4-5 alone and did not think!! Man am I rusty or my brain is turning to mush. Back to the books

Thanks again to all.

CK

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by jritchie
if A1 shoots it off the backboard and misses you don't have a violation until A1 catches it and dribbles again, So A1 can pass it off the backboard to A2 and you wouldn't have a violation????

If A1 has already dribbled before he "shoots", the dribbles again part above is not necessary for the violation. The second dribble actually occurs in the act of throwing the ball off the opponents' backboard and being the first to touch it. The violation should be called right then. What you call dribbles again would be a triple dribble!
Maybe an official should call a double turnover.

[Jimgolf]

I'm not sure I understand why the case would apply, even if the player was the first to touch the ball after it hit the wrong backboard.

The casebook refers to "throwing" the ball against the backboard, not "shooting". In this situation, it is a legitimate (if misguided) try for a goal. I take the case to refer to a deliberate attempt to re-start a stopped dribble, not an erroneous shot. The first instance is a deliberate attempt to circumvent the rules and should be a violation. The second is merely a bone-head play and should be ignored. The humiliation should be punishment enough.

This all reminds me of Ricky Davis for some reason.

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by Jimgolf
I'm not sure I understand why the case would apply, even if the player was the first to touch the ball after it hit the wrong backboard.

The casebook refers to "throwing" the ball against the backboard, not "shooting". In this situation, it is a legitimate (if misguided) try for a goal. I take the case to refer to a deliberate attempt to re-start a stopped dribble, not an erroneous shot. The first instance is a deliberate attempt to circumvent the rules and should be a violation. The second is merely a bone-head play and should be ignored. The humiliation should be punishment enough.

This isn't a shot or a try, as much as one would like to argue that. This is throwing the ball against the opponent's backboard. You cannot attempt a shot or try on the opponent's basket.

Lots of plays are bone-headed. That doesn't mean you ignore the rules that apply.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by Jimgolf

The casebook refers to "throwing" the ball against the backboard, not "shooting". In this situation, it is a legitimate (if misguided) try for a goal.

What BktBallRef said!

Rule 4-40-2- "A try for field goal is an attempt by a player to score two or three ponts by throwing the ball into a team's OWN basket".

[Jimgolf]

Originally posted by bob jenkins

The ball touching the backboard is (nearly -- the exceptopn doesn't apply here) the same as the ball touching the floor (see 4-4-5).

So, rephrase your question to read, "So A1 can pass it off the floor to A2 and you wouldn't have a violation????" and the answer will be obvious.

I thought I posted this question before, but I don't see it, so forgive me if this is a double post.

For the sake of completeness, if the shooter has not dribbled, but shoots at the wrong basket, leaving her feet, and then gets the rebound, is this now a traveling violation, or an illegal dribble?

[jritchie]

not until she dribbles, then it's a violation

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Jimgolf
For the sake of completeness, if the shooter has not dribbled, but shoots at the wrong basket, leaving her feet, and then gets the rebound, is this now a traveling violation, or an illegal dribble?

Jim, throwing the ball off your opponent's backboard is just like throwing the ball off the floor. If you throw it off the backboard and your teammate catches it, then you've thrown a bounce pass. Nothing more complicated than that. Once you realize that, then you call violations regarding the opponent's backboard exactly the same way that you would call violations on the floor.

So. . . A1 dribbles in his backcourt, then ends his dribble by catching the ball. A1 then throws the ball against the backboard and catches the "rebound". Violation. (It's just like a double dribble.)

A1 receives a pass from A2. A1 turns and throws the ball off the opponent's backboard, then catches the "rebound". You've got no call. A1 has simply dribbled once and then ended his dribble. NOW -- if A1 dribbles again, what do you have? Double dribble.

A1 receives a pass from A2. A1 pivots and jumps. While in the air, A1 throws the ball off the opponent's backboard. A1 then catches the "rebound". Ruling?