Bygone mechanics

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Watched a bit of a collegiate game on ESPN Classic yesterday (9/6/04) - BYU vs. Notre Dame, played in 1981.

Could see the Trail come into position and occasionally the Center. But only saw the Lead when he would come flying into the key... FROM THE CENTER'S SIDE??? I never saw him on the Trail's side even when the ball was over there.

What were the 3-man mechanics during those days? Were you working this game Jurrassic?

Not sure where the game was being played but there was a professional 3-point line but not one at the top of the key for collegiate/high school. Was it 1983 when the High School and collegiate games implemented the 3-pointer?

It is very interesting to review some of the historical changes to the rules - e.g. an air dribble was not traveling. Where can one learn the historical changes to officiating mechanics? I did note that they called some player control fouls that would absolutely have been NOTHING, a no call, in today's game.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
What were the 3-man mechanics during those days? Were you working this game Jurrassic?

When 3-whistle first came to the NCAA, they did not use the "flex" rotations. Basically, they said that the Lead could go to either side of the lane, depending on where the ball was, but the the Trail and Center would not rotate. If the Lead went across the lane to the C's side, it was the L's responsibility to return to the "normal" side (which was table side, I believe). So it was not at all uncommon to have the L on the C's side and have the C stay right where he was, b/c he knew that the L was just going to go back eventually, even if it was in transition!!!

As to the PC calls and the 3-point line, I can't really comment about them. I'm pretty sure that when the 3-pointer came to the NCAA, it was even closer than it is now (I think it started at 19'), so if they were playing with only an NBA line, I would guess that they weren't using the 3-point attempt. Just a guess on my part, tho. Mark DeNucci probably has the real facts.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

When 3-whistle first came to the NCAA, they did not use the "flex" rotations. Basically, they said that the Lead could go to either side of the lane, depending on where the ball was, but the the Trail and Center would not rotate. If the Lead went across the lane to the C's side, it was the L's responsibility to return to the "normal" side (which was table side, I believe). So it was not at all uncommon to have the L on the C's side and have the C stay right where he was, b/c he knew that the L was just going to go back eventually, even if it was in transition!!!

Chuck basically has the original 3-man mechanics. The C was always across from the table, and the L and T were always table side. Whoever called a foul went to the C position, and the other 2 guys switched. The C and T handled all throw-ins on their sidelines- front and backcourt. The lead came across when the ball came inside the FT line, but I don't remember us having the feeedom to go all of the across the endline. The far FT lane line extended was about where they they recommended as being the farthest that the L should go to, except to handle a throw-in on the end line. The L handled all throw-ins on the end line.

Might be something somewhere on this site. They have a lotta basketball history on it:

http://www.hometown.aol.com/bradleyrd/apbr.html

[smoref]

The 3 point arc, an ABA staple that took on a new (and permanent) life when introduced in 1979-80 in the NBA and in college basketball the following season.

Per ESPN.com

[zebraman]

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown
Watched a bit of a collegiate game on ESPN Classic yesterday (9/6/04) - BYU vs. Notre Dame, played in 1981.
It is very interesting to review some of the historical changes to the rules - e.g. an air dribble was not traveling. Where can one learn the historical changes to officiating mechanics? I did note that they called some player control fouls that would absolutely have been NOTHING, a no call, in today's game.

I saw the game too. What's an air dribble?

I loved the fact that they called PC fouls. Did you notice how much cleaner the game was and how finesse and quickness were emphasized and there was very little pushing and shoving in the post? Geez, it looked like the game of basketball I grew up playing. I had forgotten how enjoyable the game could be played in a more pure form.

Z

[Mark T. DeNucci, Sr.]

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Chuck basically has the original 3-man mechanics. The C was always across from the table, and the L and T were always table side. Whoever called a foul went to the C position, and the other 2 guys switched. The C and T handled all throw-ins on their sidelines- front and backcourt. The lead came across when the ball came inside the FT line, but I don't remember us having the feeedom to go all of the across the endline. The far FT lane line extended was about where they they recommended as being the farthest that the L should go to, except to handle a throw-in on the end line. The L handled all throw-ins on the end line.

Might be something somewhere on this site. They have a lotta basketball history on it:

http://www.hometown.aol.com/bradleyrd/apbr.html

Jurassic Referee describes the the mechancis well, what is funny is to watch these games on ESPN Classic and say to oneself: Boy, did we look weird compared to today's mechanics.

MTD, Sr.

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Originally posted by zebraman
...What's an air dribble?

As I understand the original rules

http://www.ukans.edu/heritage/graphi.../naismith.html

"#3 A player cannot run with the ball. The player must throw it from the spot on which he catches it, allowance to be made for a man running at good speed."

A player could throw the ball to himself!... basically dribbling in the air rather than off the floor.

I thought I had seen the "air dribble" term used somewhere else but can't fnd it now. I don't know that this was the case but I believe I read somewhere on the net that the "air dribble" was an allowed part of the original game.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown

As I understand the original rules

http://www.ukans.edu/heritage/graphi.../naismith.html

"#3 A player cannot run with the ball. The player must throw it from the spot on which he catches it, allowance to be made for a man running at good speed."

A player could throw the ball to himself!... basically dribbling in the air rather than off the floor.

I thought I had seen the "air dribble" term used somewhere else but can't fnd it now. I don't know that this was the case but I believe I read somewhere on the net that the "air dribble" was an allowed part of the original game.

Many moons ago, when little dinosaurs first started to roam the hardwoods, the term "air dribble" was used to define the act of (illegally) touching the ball twice while it was in the air on the same dribble. If I remember right, the FED dropped that terminology and inserted a casebook play that is still in use. This is what used to be called an "air dribble":

Casebook play 4.15.4SitD(a)-- "While dribbling, A1 bats the ball over the head of an opponent, runs around the opponent, bats the ball to the floor and continues to dribble.-- RULING: Violation...because the ball was touched twice by A1's hand(s) during a dribble, before it touched the floor".

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by DownTownTonyBrown


Was it 1983 when the High School and collegiate games implemented the 3-pointer?

I don't know when NFHS introduced the 3-pointer, but I played HS ball from 89-93 and we had it.
For the NCAA, I can tell you that it was the 1985-86 season. The previous year's championship game was Georgetown-Villanova. The tactics employed by Villanova during this game caused the final push for both the 3-point shot and the shot clock (originally 45 seconds) to become part of NCAA men's basketball.
Another interesting note: I grew up watching Big Sky conference basketball. This conference was one of the first to use the 3-pointer in conference play. I believe they put it in during 1982. The Southern Conference did it even earlier, 1980-81. The line was 22-ft. They served as the main testing ground for the NCAA rule. It was quite popular.
Here's a link to a story about it in the Southern Conference: http://www.hoophall.com/history/thre...ot_history.htm

[Edited by Nevadaref on Sep 9th, 2004 at 04:20 AM]

[JRutledge]

I believe the season was 1986-87. This was my freshman year in HS and when I played that year that was the very first year they allowed the 3 point line. If I am not mistaken both NF and NCAA did this in the same year. I remember because everyone was practicing that shot that year (no matter how good they were). I hit a few that year, but I did not have the range consistently. I know that Louisville won the NC against Duke with "Never nervous Pervis" as he was just a freshman. Then next season they put this 3 point in. I remember Denny Crum hating it and I believe that Louisville did not make the NCAA Tournament that following season.

Peace

[Stat-Man]

1987-1988 was the first year with the 3 point line in HS because my class was the first to play with it as 9th graders. It's funny because our HS yearbook has a picture of the gym from spring 1986 and the 3-point line isn't there yet.

[JRutledge]

Stat-Man or anyone,

Is it possible that some states had it before this year? I was not an official back then and I would not have known what the NF was at all. Were there any states that used this as an experimental rule?

The reason this particular year stands out, I did not attend the same HS as a freshman in Illinois as I did in my sophomore year. I went to school in Missouri in 87-88, that was the second year we had the 3 point rule (or at least I did). My freshman class was undefeated in both football and basketball in 1986-87. I graduated in 1990.

Peace

[Nevadaref]

Originally posted by JRutledge
I believe the season was 1986-87.
....

I know that Louisville won the NC against Duke with "Never nervous Pervis" as he was just a freshman. Then next season they put this 3 point in. I remember Denny Crum hating it and I believe that Louisville did not make the NCAA Tournament that following season.

Peace

Rut, You are right and I stand corrected.
I looked up the box scores to the NCAA finals from 1986 Louisville 72-69 Duke, and 1987 Indiana 74-73 Syracuse. I found that only the 1987 game lists 3FG-A as a stat. Conclusion, there wasn't a 3pt shot in the 1985-86 season, as I incorrectly stated previously. I do however believe that the 45-second shot clock was used in that season.

PS Alford hit 7-10 3pt goals for Indiana in that win.
http://www.hickoksports.com/history/...987.shtml#boxs

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Nevadaref


Rut, You are right and I stand corrected.
I looked up the box scores to the NCAA finals from 1986 Louisville 72-69 Duke, and 1987 Indiana 74-73 Syracuse. I found that only the 1987 game lists 3FG-A as a stat. Conclusion, there wasn't a 3pt shot in the 1985-86 season, as I incorrectly stated previously. I do however believe that the 45-second shot clock was used in that season.

PS Alford hit 7-10 3pt goals for Indiana in that win.
http://www.hickoksports.com/history/...987.shtml#boxs

I think the ACC had a 3 point shot for their Tournament before the rule changed. Not sure if they used it any other games. The 45 second clock came after the year Villanova beat Georgetown in that big upset. I remember the NCAA did not want to see a game controlled the way Villanova did all over the country. So they added that rule the following year (85??). I was not thinking about the Indiana NC win. I should have remembered that, I was cheering for the Big Ten to have a Champion against the Big East.

Peace

[DownTownTonyBrown]

Holy Cow!

You guys all playing high school ball in the late 80's make me feel like I need to change my monicker...

Jurrassic when were you in HS? The 60's I hope.