Situation. Team A down by one--8 Seconds to go in game-Team A inbounding ball after a basket by team B--Team A Inbounds and team A player quickly gets around his defensive player-dribbling to mid court with an advantage ie 5 on 4--you notice the clock has not started--since you are counting down for a ten second violation you have definite knowledge of time elasped--do you blow whistle as soon as you notice clock and stop Team A's advantage?
It seems the only right option to me--what else can you possibly do? or what should you do?

thanks

End of Game
 

Don't blow the whistle, you keep the count and blow the game over if the 8 sec. expire. Correct the time remaining only if a whistle is blown for a foul or violation before time expires. NFHS 5-10-2

[Edited by jdccpa on Aug 14th, 2004 at 11:14 AM]

Re: End of Game
 

I agree. ALso, I'd keep a count going with one arm so that everyone can see that I've been keeping track the whole time.

And remind yourself that the next time you're at the end of a close game, you'll be more conscientious about keeping everyone completely in the moment. That last quick sentence right before you inbound the ball...

...wait a minute...

Why was the clock stopped in the first place? Was the shot a free throw?

Don't blow the whistle, you keep the count and blow the game over if the 8 sec. expir
 

I also agree. I've been in situations like yours and I just kept my count strong, firm and visible. Now let’s take this a little further and assume there are no violations or fouls before the time expires. If the bucket happens to go in, close in on the call and signal with confidence. If the ball was released after your 8 second count while the ball is suspended in mid air, immediately turn your back to the play and signal no basket!! No basket!! And continue walking away. Otherwise could you imagine standing there watching the ball go right into the bucket then having to signal no basket. It's a better sell to everyone if you walk away signaling.

Re: Re: End of Game
 

Prolly an NCAA guy.

time was stoped due to a time out after team b basket--sorry--thanks for your help

Yea, okay. So next time, when it's the end of a close game, you spend that last time out talking to partner(s), talking to table, talking to whoever else needs to be 100% accurate. This is the part of the game you CAN and SHOULD control. This sounds like a reprimand, and I don't intend it that way. I'm just saying it's the lesson you can learn from this situation. Maybe this is a good time to remind each other, "Let's get the call right!", eh, tomegun?

Well, I'm going to respectfully disagree, with a caveat. As soon as you notice that the clock has not started, kill the play and have the timer set the clock to the correct time. Here's the caveat -- do it only if you can blow the whistle before the offensive team has started attacking the basket.

People will be much less unhappy if you correct it immediately than if you "surprise" everyone by killing the game without a horn.

The case play cited above specifies that the official was unaware of the timer's error. The timer informs the official of the error. But if you know the error has occured, correct it as soon as is reasonable.

If you can't stop the play before the offensive team starts attacking the basket, then keep your count going. But if people don't notice that the clock is still stopped, they're not going to notice that you're swinging your arm.

Coach: "Why didn't you correct the clock?!?!?!"

Official: "B/c I was keeping the count myself. Didn't you see me swinging my arm?"

Coach: Unprintable.

Official: "Whack. Good-bye!"

:eek:

And usually for me, by this time in the game, that's his 2nd. :D :D

I actually like Chuck's position better. If I was a coach I would rather want it stopped and fixed so that all my players can see the time on the clock, but only if I hadn't been attacking the basket. If my player is going in for a layup and you stop it I will be kind of mad. It is a tough predicament though.

I can't speak for 100% of the situations, but I do know that with veteran crews and tight games in this situation will come to the table and remind the game crew to start the clock on the chop.

Chuck, I see your point. But I guess I'd sort of assume they are attacking the basket as soon as they get their hands on the ball, even if that's back under the other basket. So in your procedure, do you give the ball back approximately at the point where it is, with whatever seconds you think they have remaining? Or do you go back under the other basket, and have a do-over with 8 seconds?

Does anyone have the link to that similar thread we had a few months ago where the ref chopped the time in too early? Or was it the table that got it wrong? This isn't quite the same, but the same philosophies might be applied. Besides, there isn't much else to argue about right now, is there?

I think I give the ball where it was when I blew the whistle.

As for the situation you're talking about it was because the official chopped the clock to early.

I had this exact scenario in a HS varsity game a couple seasons ago, except that there 10 seconds left. Don't assume anything. If they're not driving to the basket, or about to pass to the post, you can kill it. If you notice it while they're still in their own backcourt, so much the better. You may not have the chance to kill it; but 8 seconds is a long time (ask any rodeo bull rider) and they may take a couple seconds to set up a final shot.

As to where to put it in play. . . When we discussed the question of what happens when an inbounder fails to step OOB after a basket, I believe that I made my feelings about "do-overs" very clear. No do-over. You award the ball at the closest spot to where it was when you blew the whistle to fix the clock.

As always, just my opinion, for whatever you think it's worth. :)

Chuck, when you say no do-overs, do you mean you would subtract the X seconds from the clock? Example if three seconds passed before you noticed the clock was not running, would you take off those three seconds before resuming play?

Absolutely, without question, yes. Take off whatever time you have definite knowledge of and put the ball in play wherever it was when you blew the whistle.

In FIBA rules, keep re-setting the clock until the USSR wins.

I should've said this earlier. In deciding whether or not the offensive team is attacking the basket, you can use the same criteria as you would for deciding whether to stop play for an injured defensive player. You don't stop the play if the offense is attacking, but as soon as they pull back, or stop going to the basket, you kill it. Same thing with the situation we're discussing.

If they're not in the act of shooting, driving to the basket, or about to dump it inside for their buy guy, kill it and get the clock set correctly.

I'm with Chuck on this answer... stop and correct the situation

However, why would we be keeping back-court time if there is no possibility of a backcourt violation - less than 10 seconds on the clock? Personally, I don't do any arm-swinging if there are less than 10 seconds left in the game. And if I catch myself habitually swinging, I stop.

So if you did not have definite knowledge of elapsed time what would you do?

Blow the whistle, put the ball back in play where it was when you blew the whistle, and start at 10 seconds.

Adam

Just for this situation. Once I see that the clock has started, I stop swinging the arms, but I still keep the time in my head.

By the book, you would stop the game and make sure the timer starts it correctly the next time. You would resume play by putting the ball in play at the spot nearest to where it was when you blew the whistle, with no change to the clock.

In real life, you take your best, careful guess. Stop the game, take a couple seconds off the clock and put the ball in play at the closest spot to where it was when you blew the whistle.

If the ball is in the frontcourt when I spot the error, I would take 3 or 4 seconds off the clock, depending on the how fast the ballhandler brought it up. If the ball is still in the backcourt, I would take 2 seconds off the clock.

It's not by the book, but that's what I would do. I don't think you can say, "Sorry the clock guy messed up and gave the offense a few extra seconds; but I'm not going to do anything about it."

What I had in mind was a fast-moving play to get the ball downcourt ahead of the defense. Not necessarily a fast-break, maybe a passing play. But then I realized that the defense probably isn't going to be in the back court, so that shoots down my image. On the other hand, it bears thinking about. If the defense is pressing heavily, and A3 gets down court alone, and the ball is being passed quickly to them, even if it's not across the division line yet, I'm not going to take away that chance. I expect you'll agree with me on this one exception to your procedure.

I fully agree that the clock must be stopped. If not, you're going to have a real mess when you blow the whistle to end the game when A1 is waiting for 3 seconds to show on the clock before launching the play the coach just drew up in the timeout.

There are a few times I would either wait or not stop it at all.
<LI>A1 has an imminent scoring opportunity.
<LI>The score difference is more than a few...maybe 10 more than the time left in seconds.

I can't be the only one wondering why som44 is counting for the ten-second violation with only eight seconds remaining in the game at the time of the inbounds, can I?

no.

He's counting because he made it a habit a long time ago, so that if anything goes wrong with the clock, he'll have "positive knowledge" of what the time should be.

I was counting out of force of habit--wish i was smart enough to say it was in case of a problem but in truth just habit