bat the ball repeatedly to the air - Page 4

ysong · #1 (**permalink**) Wed Aug 11, 2004, 09:25am

Quote:

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

Quote:

Originally posted by ysong

Quote:

Originally posted by bob jenkins

Quote:

Originally posted by ysong
Does the dribble automatically end if the palm tilts skyward?

Thanks.

Of course not.

But why in NCAA, there is one particular case and the ruling:
A.R. 11. A1, while advancing the ball by dribbling, manages to keep a hand in contact with the ball until it reaches its maximum height. A1 maintains such control as the ball descends, pushing it to the playing court at the last moment; however, after six or seven bounces, A1s hands are in contact with the ball and the palm of the hand on this particular dribble is skyward. RULING: Violation. The ball has come to rest on the hand while the palm and the fingers are facing upward, so the dribble has ended. When the player continues to move or stand still and dribble, the player has committed a violation by dribbling a second time. (See Rule 9-6.)

Ysong, the dribble always ends when the ball has comes to rest. That's the criteria that we use, NOT the position of the hand.

Wow, this must be one of my historical misconceptions. Thanks JR.

Then my next confusion is what exactly "come to rest on the hand" means? I believe every push even in a perfect dribble creates a moment that hand and ball cease to move relative to each other. also when you do a legal cross over, the ball usually sticks to the hand for almost the entire length of the move. on the other hand, in the above case, even when the hand "tilts" skyward (not level and skyward), the ball still has the tendency to roll downward, and the period that the ball stop moving (relative to the hand) is not necessarily longer than that in a legal cross over, but why this one is considered "rest on the hand", while a cross over and a upward batting are not?

Thanks.

Jurassic Referee · #2 (**permalink**) Wed Aug 11, 2004, 09:47am

Quote:

Originally posted by ysong

[/B]

Ysong, the dribble always ends when the ball has comes to rest. That's the criteria that we use, NOT the position of the hand. [/B][/QUOTE]

Wow, this must be one of my historical misconceptions. Thanks JR.

Then my next confusion is what exactly "come to rest on the hand" means? I believe every push even in a perfect dribble creates a moment that hand and ball cease to move relative to each other. also when you do a legal cross over, the ball usually sticks to the hand for almost the entire length of the move. on the other hand, in the above case, even when the hand "tilts" skyward (not level and skyward), the ball still has the tendency to roll downward, and the period that the ball stop moving (relative to the hand) is not necessarily longer than that in a legal cross over, but why this one is considered "rest on the hand", while a cross over and a upward batting are not?

[/B][/QUOTE]Ysong, it may not really be that much of an historical misconception on your part. At one time, there was a case play in the rules stating that if the hand dribbling the ball went past the vertical(i.e.-over 90 degrees), then we were supposed to call "palming" or "double dribble" if the player continued dribbling. That concept was changed to what is used now; it is strictly up to each official's judgement as to whether the ball actually does come to rest in the dribbler's hand. If a player is using a cross-over, they can legally continue pushing the ball while maintaining contact with it. Where the cross-over is usually illegal is right at the start of the move, where the player changes directions. If you feel that the ball does come to rest at this time, then this becomes an illegal move. "Upward" batting uses the same criteria. It's strictly your judgement as to whether the ball ever does come to rest at any time during this move. The only rule of thumb really governing the call, imo, is that if there any doubt at all in your mind, don't call it.