How do you call 'em?

[Mike Burns]

Is there any difference in the way you call a Frosh or JV compared to Varsity? What about girls compared to boys?
Given the difference in age and athletic ability do you allow more "incidental" contact in a lower level and call varsity tighter?
If you let a little more contact go in a lower level game, do coaches complain about this?

Thanks for your feedback,
Mike

[mick]

Originally posted by Mike Burns
Is there any difference in the way you call a Frosh or JV compared to Varsity? What about girls compared to boys?
Given the difference in age and athletic ability do you allow more "incidental" contact in a lower level and call varsity tighter?
If you let a little more contact go in a lower level game, do coaches complain about this?

Thanks for your feedback,
Mike

Mike,
For all levels, I call advantage/disadvantage for fouls, as I see them.

I think my variations in the rules pertain primarily to violations. At 7th, I let the pivot foot slide, the slight carry/palming, the coordination violations.

At 8th, 9th and JV level I call to the abilities of the better team. The looser calls almost always penalize the better coached teams. Although, in many cases, the better teams merely adjust. No biggie.

Varsity I call the rules, as I understand them.
If two Varsity teams are playing like crap, I going to blow the whistle a lot of times.

I do not judge between girls and boys, only levels.

Treat a player like they could be, and should be, and they'll be come the player they could be and should be.

mick

[co2ice]

Mick is exactly correct, if an advantage is gained you have to call it. However, the skill level needs to be taken into consideration. I had a girls freshman game a few weeks ago were the visiting coach expected every travel called. We didn't and he came unglued, but we kept the game moving and the girls enjoyed themselves. So be prepared to take some flak if you give some slack.(cute huh?) I know this is said a lot on this forum but just make sure you call it consistantly through the whole game. By the way I did ref one of the teams friday and the improvement over a few weeks is amazing!

[mick]

Originally posted by co2ice
...However, the skill level needs to be taken into consideration. I had a girls freshman game a few weeks ago were the visiting coach expected every travel called. We didn't and he came unglued...,

...By the way I did ref one of the teams friday and the improvement over a few weeks is amazing!

co2ice,
This is why I like to call to the better team .
We don't look like we have no knowledge of the rules and the worse team must improve in order to compete.
mick

[Mike Burns]

Had a JV girls game at WDW Wide World of Sports Compex a few weeks ago (I should have listed this as a great place to work under the "Favorite Places" thread). We were calling the game along the lines you have stated above - ADV vs DisADV. One of the coaches was constantly on us about the lack of calls (BTW this team had only 6 players). The other team captain also mentioned "rough play" under the basket. Durring the half Partner and I decided to give them what they wanted. I believe 5 or 6 players fouled out and one team finished the game with 3 eligible players.
We were probably calling it too loose to begin and too tight in the second half.
This is why I love this Board, you get such great advice and feedback.
Thanks guys (and gals)!

[williebfree]

As you will notice in the various threads here... There is a lot of leeway on what is percieved as ADV v DISADV.

I have found that you need to determine your personal "comfort zone" on what is tolerable. I suspect this will vary between levels of play. Again... Consistency and fairness are the qualities you should be striving for.

[mick]

Originally posted by williebfree
As you will notice in the various threads here... There is a lot of leeway on what is percieved as ADV v DISADV.

I have found that you need to determine your personal "comfort zone" on what is tolerable. I suspect this will vary between levels of play. Again... Consistency and fairness are the qualities you should be striving for.

For sure, Willie.
For me, seeing guys banging under the boards, off ball, may not cause a disadvantage with regard to the play going on, but I'll call that stuff because it is a hardship on me, in that I have to constantly watch these player. By blowing my Fox, they know I won't tolerate unnecessary "housekeeping".
mick

[BktBallRef]

Our crew has backed off the whistle this year. We're allowing the players to play a little more. Early in the year, we had two sloppy teams and blew 63 fouls in the game. We decided then that they would just have to kill each other because this wasn't working. In our next two games combined, we had called less fouls than we did in that one game.

They'll play through the small bumps and pushes most times. If they don't, then the foul is obvious. Coaches seem to prefer fewer fouls. You just have to be careful that you don't pass on too much. It's a very fine line.

[mick]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
Our crew has backed off the whistle this year. We're allowing the players to play a little more. Early in the year, we had two sloppy teams and blew 63 fouls in the game. We decided then that they would just have to kill each other because this wasn't working. In our next two games combined, we had called less fouls than we did in that one game.

They'll play through the small bumps and pushes most times. If they don't, then the foul is obvious. Coaches seem to prefer fewer fouls. You just have to be careful that you don't pass on too much. It's a very fine line.

Isn't it odd that the NFHS clinics said to let'em play more and the CCA said clamp down more?
The college game and the high school game are very close because of those directives.

[williebfree]

Definitely a "Fox moment" when the off the ball action gets rough...

[rainmaker]

Mike--

I am still working on my own game, and can't say that I've really developed a style yet, but I do notice a couple of trends by now (about 250 games under my belt). One is that I call travelling tighter in a girls game. This is because I see that at the higher levels (college and WNBA) the travel is called much tighter, and I tell the coaches this if they complain. i also tend to call rec games looser than the "official" games, such as HS pre-season and season games. The main problem I have is that sometimes the advantage or disadvantage of slight contact is not obvious until it's too late to call the foul. I think the understanding of this is a moatter of another year or two of experience for me, while other refs with more b-ball background may get a feel for this much more quickly.

The main trend I see in other refs, is a tendency to call the game less tight than they talk in their meetings!

[BktBallRef]

Originally posted by rainmaker

The main trend I see in other refs, is a tendency to call the game less tight than they talk in their meetings!

That statement is a picture that's worth a thousand words. I see this too. Clinicians who say "Call the palming!", "Call the intentional fouls!" But when the rubber meets the road, they're calling it just like they always have.