Nonrotating two-person crews

[RookieDude]

Are there any good arguments for doing the long switch?

Sure...one official gets to rest and one official gets to run. One outa two ain't bad.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by RookieDude
Are there any good arguments for doing the long switch?

I could see forcing it if the upcoming arrangement puts one ref too close to a certain coach, but I sure prefer the bump and run as a general rule.

[coach41]

As a person who did a three game set last night in a summer league, I concur with minimizing the switching. The clock is running so you don't want to slow the game down to give the players/coaches time to play/work on the things.

For some reason when you have these long sets, it seems the last game of the night seems to be the best one. So last night both teams decided to turn the game into a glorified track meet. The gals were sprinting up and down the floor like gazelles.

Though I have relatively young legs to work with, I was quite gassed by the end of the game.

[Stat-Man]

Speaking only for myself, having officials who hustle even is probably what I'd look for first, that and consistency. Seeing I don't know all the switching mechanics, I wouldn't know or necessarily care about how much they switched in a summer game, as long as they hustle.

I'm not sure if this is the norm, but last year in a summer a game, the trail was about 6 feet shy of crossing half court and called a travel down in the opposite block with the ball handler in heavy traffic. I'd love to know how he keeps his eyesight so sharp

[TravelinMan]

Originally posted by Stat-Man
Speaking only for myself, having officials who hustle even is probably what I'd look for first, that and consistency. Seeing I don't know all the switching mechanics, I wouldn't know or necessarily care about how much they switched in a summer game, as long as they hustle.

I'm not sure if this is the norm, but last year in a summer a game, the trail was about 6 feet shy of crossing half court and called a travel down in the opposite block with the ball handler in heavy traffic. I'd love to know how he keeps his eyesight so sharp

Coach, you know it is not the norm. There are times, however, when a call like that has to be made if (1)trail is not guessing (2)it is a "Must-make call, i.e., hard foul and (3)lead partner missed it (trail should hold up slightly on whistle).
__________________________________________________ _______
“Let other pens dwell on guilt and misery.”

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by TravelinMan

Coach, you know it is not the norm. There are times, however, when a call like that has to be made if (1)trail is not guessing (2)it is a "Must-make call, i.e., hard foul and (3)lead partner missed it (trail should hold up slightly on whistle).

Jack, I'm going to disagree with you here, to the extent that you're saying this particular travel is a must-get. And if trail really thought it was a must-get, he'd better double hustle before he starts blowing and be clear down to the 3-point line before he's done. Either that, or find another hobby.

[Adam]

I agree, Juulie.
I had 4 games yesterday, and I had a few plays where my partner went fishing. One play in particular, I was trail and he was lead when he blows the whistle on an OOB on my sideline.
A: He blew the whistle before the ball actually landed OOB.
B: The entire play was in my primary and he was looking through the players in the lane to get it.
C: He immediately pointed the direction he thought the ball should go. He was right, but I was a little miffed about it.

A 2nd play occurred on a fast break when he called a shooting foul as the trail from 3/4 court away. I was right on the play and saw no contact.

No, I didn't respond by going on my own fishing expeditions. I did, however, initiate a few more switches than were necessary to make him work a bit harder.

[TravelinMan]

Originally posted by rainmaker

Jack, I'm going to disagree with you here, to the extent that you're saying this particular travel is a must-get. [/B]

No Juulie, I am not saying this particular travel is a must-get. I said hard foul is a must-get. I think trail was, in this instance, not hustling and then calling out of their primary when they were in poor position.

[jayedgarwho]

Many thanks for the comments so far. ItÂ’s neat to see a topic percolate over a few days. (Although now I may kill it . . . .)

Rookie Dude: My fault for not rewriting “dead ball” when “foul call” was the term I wanted. Of course you’re right, nobody expects or would want a switch on every whistle. A switch every couple of minutes or on the shooting fouls is plenty good.

And I’d second Stat-Man’s views: if the officials are hustling, the rest of it is largely moot. But then I can’t remember seeing too many hustling officials who failed to switch at least a handful of times per half, whether the game is running time or stop time, first game of the day or last game of the day. I’d say switching on a regular basis seems to be a leading indicator of hustle, good positioning, consistency, and talent. And spending an entire half unswitched is a leading indicator of the opposite. If fatigue, the pay, a running clock, the month of the year, etc., are factors, so be it – those things will figure in to some limited extent. But if you do something well and you’re proud of that, you’re going to want to do it the right way, and that usually wins out.

Unfortunately, I think that means that the officials who have been planted at one end of the court for an entire half are going to be the least receptive to being called on it (even respectfully), as Rainmaker suggests.

Last April I saw an official, working SOLO, getting from baseline to baseline for one 28-minute stop time 6th grade AAU game and part of a second one. Then he caught a partner, and hustled his way through that game and a third one. And he is an extremely solid official. I think thereÂ’s some correlation there. The active players who care about positioning are generally (generally) the better players; the active officials who care about positioning are generally (generally) the better officials.

And (all together now . . .) the coaches who are active in practice but then sit still long enough to get their game chair warm are generally the best coaches. No argument here.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by jayedgarwho

Last April I saw an official, working SOLO, getting from baseline to baseline for one 28-minute stop time 6th grade AAU game and part of a second one. Then he caught a partner, and hustled his way through that game and a third one. And he is an extremely solid official. I think thereÂ’s some correlation there. The active players who care about positioning are generally (generally) the better players; the active officials who care about positioning are generally (generally) the better officials.

6th grade aau is known by another name: stealing money. I've worked my own share of solo games, up thru JV HS, and I go from free throw line to free throw line, never baseline to baseline. Your friend was getting a good workout but I bet he didnt see much.

We agree that it's all about your position on the floor. I, for one, practice solid mechanics even when working multiple games, which includes generally switching when required. But switching or not switching on fouls has nothing to do with your position to make good calls.

[jayedgarwho]

[

[/B][/QUOTE] "Your friend was getting a good workout but I bet he didnt see much."[/B][/QUOTE]

Not my friend -- never said a word to him other than "Great hustle -- when's your partner coming?" And I'm not sure why he wouldn't have a better view of the "far side" of the court doing it his way as opposed to yours -- but the point in both cases is that you're taking pride in what you do, you're hustling and not coasting, just as we tell the kids to do.

[/B][/QUOTE] "But switching or not switching on fouls has nothing to do with your position to make good calls." [/B][/QUOTE]

Agreed. Except that both have to do with effort. And officials who make the effort to do one but not the other are very uncommon, as far as I can tell.

[/B][/QUOTE] "6th grade aau is known by another name: stealing money." [/B][/QUOTE]

I don't follow. The games are too easy to call? The officials aren't good enough to be paid? Your use of the phrase "your friend" suggests the latter, but I'm honestly unsure what you mean.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by jayedgarwho
[

"Your friend was getting a good workout but I bet he didnt see much."[/B][/QUOTE]

Not my friend -- never said a word to him other than "Great hustle -- when's your partner coming?" And I'm not sure why he wouldn't have a better view of the "far side" of the court doing it his way as opposed to yours -- but the point in both cases is that you're taking pride in what you do, you're hustling and not coasting, just as we tell the kids to do.

[/B][/QUOTE] "But switching or not switching on fouls has nothing to do with your position to make good calls." [/B][/QUOTE]

Agreed. Except that both have to do with effort. And officials who make the effort to do one but not the other are very uncommon, as far as I can tell.

[/B][/QUOTE] "6th grade aau is known by another name: stealing money." [/B][/QUOTE]

I don't follow. The games are too easy to call? The officials aren't good enough to be paid? Your use of the phrase "your friend" suggests the latter, but I'm honestly unsure what you mean.
[/B][/QUOTE]

In no particular order:

"Your friend" is a way of referring to people we don't know in informal discussion. If it confuses you substitue the word "he".

6th grade games are very easy to call, rarely are 2 officials required.

The view from the free throw line extended, what we normally call the C, is probably the best single view on the court to officiate from. Generally nothing to be gained by moving all the way down to the baseline, except you might get an attaboy from a coach who might not know better.

Hustle does not equate to quality, finding and maintaining the optimal position does not equate to coasting.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by jayedgarwho
[

"Your friend was getting a good workout but I bet he didnt see much."[/B][/QUOTE]

Not my friend -- never said a word to him other than "Great hustle -- when's your partner coming?" And I'm not sure why he wouldn't have a better view of the "far side" of the court doing it his way as opposed to yours -- but the point in both cases is that you're taking pride in what you do, you're hustling and not coasting, just as we tell the kids to do.

[/B][/QUOTE] "But switching or not switching on fouls has nothing to do with your position to make good calls." [/B][/QUOTE]

Agreed. Except that both have to do with effort. And officials who make the effort to do one but not the other are very uncommon, as far as I can tell.

[/B][/QUOTE] "6th grade aau is known by another name: stealing money." [/B][/QUOTE]

I don't follow. The games are too easy to call? The officials aren't good enough to be paid? Your use of the phrase "your friend" suggests the latter, but I'm honestly unsure what you mean.
[/B][/QUOTE]

There could be a couple of takes on this....


Depending on the speed of the players, he may be running so much he can never square up to the play to get a good look. Your worst view of a play is a view in motion. Your eyes function a lot better when not bouncing up and down several times per second. He might get a better angle on a play or two but will miss the stuff in transition. If he's that much faster than the players and getting baseline to baseline before the players get down the floor, he might have a good look but it's overkill if they're running that slow.

I'm not out there to impress anyone by beating the kids down the floor from baseline to baseline. It may even begin to appear that you're trying to draw attention to your self by doing so.

All that said, I do sometimes go baseline to baseline in a 1 ref game....not as a rule but as the play dictates.

Re: stealing money....many 6th grade games are done by 1 ref around here because that is more than is needed in most cases. They're usually young enough to not have problem attitudes. They're usually slow enough to not be exhausting. Even if they can run fast, they often can't run fast while they're dribbling, passing, or playing defense.

In other words, those games are pretty easy unless the official chooses to make them hard.

[jayedgarwho]

The responses from Dan and Camron, and especially the lack of condescension from Camron, are much appreciated. Points well taken.

Although I would disagree about elite 6th grade boys where I come from -- if an official thinks that he or she is above hustling there because the game's too easy, then most of the time that official would be, by my definiton, stealing money.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by jayedgarwho
The responses from Dan and Camron, and especially the lack of condescension from Camron, are much appreciated. Points well taken.

Although I would disagree about elite 6th grade boys where I come from -- if an official thinks that he or she is above hustling there because the game's too easy, then most of the time that official would be, by my definiton, stealing money.

Talk about condescending.

No one said he/she/it's ABOVE hustling because the game's too easy.

Camron & I said these games are EASY. Believe me my friend, there is nothing "elite" about 6th grade basketball...unless your 6th graders happen to be around 17 years old or so. I guess it could happen.

And I don't need your definition to validate my opinion. I already told you it's stealing money.