Travel or not?

ilya · #1 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 13, 2001, 03:39pm

Ok. In my rec game (we lost by like 18 cuz we all had a terrible game), i get he ball inbounds. about 10 seconds left in the quarter. i dribble to the half court line, take one step with my left foot (the ball is in my hands now) and one with the right, and pass it to an open man. the ref calls a travel.
is that a correct call?
also, there were a bunch of calls i have questions about
one of them:
I shoot the ball. Right after releasing the ball, the defender smacks me on the wrist, so that his fingers get locked in between my fingers. the ref calls nothing.
is that a foul or not?
another one:
a 2 on 1 break for them (i'm that one on D)
player B1 gets the ball, i put my hands around him so he doesn't get an easy layup and would shoot FTs (we're in the penalty by then)
when i do that, he passes off and B2 makes a layup. shouldn't that have been a foul on me??

Mark Dexter · #2 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 13, 2001, 04:28pm

(1) When you lifted your left foot, the right became pivot. When you lifted the pivot foot then returned it to the ground before passing or shooting, that is a travel.

(2) This probably falls under incidental contact (slight after the shot is off) or the fact that the hand is part of the ball.

(3) Yes foul on you, except for advantage/disadvantage. If B1 went to the line, they might not have gotten any points, and your team could have gotten the rebound. With B2 making the shot, the team is guaranteed 2 points. I'm willing to bet that if the pass had have been missed, there would have been a foul on you.

BktBallRef · #3 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 13, 2001, 04:33pm

Quote:

Originally posted by ilya
Ok. In my rec game (we lost by like 18 cuz we all had a terrible game), i get he ball inbounds. about 10 seconds left in the quarter. i dribble to the half court line, take one step with my left foot (the ball is in my hands now) and one with the right, and pass it to an open man. the ref calls a travel.
is that a correct call?

If the ball was in your hands when you stepped with your left foot, then, yes, it was a travel. Whan you stepped with your left foot, you right foot became your pivot. When you lifted the right foot and stepped, you traveled.

Quote:

I shoot the ball. Right after releasing the ball, the defender smacks me on the wrist, so that his fingers get locked in between my fingers. the ref calls nothing.
is that a foul or not?

No. If he hit you on the wrist, how could your fingers become interlocked with his fingers? Sounds like he hit you on the hand. If the ball is already gone, then the contact couldn't have any affect on the shot. If the ball was still in your hand, the hand is considered to be part of the ball.

Quote:

a 2 on 1 break for them (i'm that one on D)
player B1 gets the ball, i put my hands around him so he doesn't get an easy layup and would shoot FTs (we're in the penalty by then)when i do that, he passes off and B2 makes a layup. shouldn't that have been a foul on me??

I would do one of two things. I would call an intentional foul on you or I would ignore your foul and allow B2 to have his layup. Why penalize the offense when you're not playing defense?

Can't catch a break, can you?

mick · #4 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 13, 2001, 04:44pm

Quote:

Originally posted by ilya
Ok. In my rec game (we lost by like 18 cuz we all had a terrible game), i get he ball inbounds. about 10 seconds left in the quarter. i dribble to the half court line, take one step with my left foot (the ball is in my hands now) and one with the right, and pass it to an open man. the ref calls a travel.
is that a correct call?

Exactly what did you do, Ilya?
Got to half court and took a step w/ left before you grabbed the ball with both hands, or as you grabbed the ball with both hands. That Ref must've thought your Right was you pivot. Did your Right go down before you passed?
Paint a picture.

also, there were a bunch of calls i have questions about
one of them:
I shoot the ball. Right after releasing the ball, the defender smacks me on the wrist, so that his fingers get locked in between my fingers. the ref calls nothing.
is that a foul or not?

It didn't affect your shot, or your landing, did it? Or did it affect your follow through? Then it's a foul if it affected the shot.

another one:
a 2 on 1 break for them (i'm that one on D)
player B1 gets the ball, i put my hands around him so he doesn't get an easy layup and would shoot FTs (we're in the penalty by then)
when i do that, he passes off and B2 makes a layup. shouldn't that have been a foul on me??

Sounds like an intentional foul, Ilya. If you weren't so far behind the Ref may have given them two shots and the ball for a throw-in.

mick

Art N · #5 (**permalink**) Sat Jan 13, 2001, 11:32pm

I agree the above comments...especially item #3
We officials have been asked to start calling more of the "intentional grabs", which players do to stop a break away or get a foul at the end of a game.

ilya · #6 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 14, 2001, 01:11am

>how could your fingers become interlocked with his fingers? Sounds like he hit you on the hand
sorry bout that. english isn't my first language so i make mistakes sometimes

mick:
1) i was dribling. whith left on the ground, i picked up the ball and then put my right on the ground too, and didn't move my feet after that. both of my feet were on the
ground when i passed.
2) well i missed the shot, so it did affect it, and i did start falling back (even though i kept my balance and didn't fall on my ass

)
3) we came back in the fourth and with a minute left, we were down by 5 or 7, so we wanted to foul to make them shoot FTs. i was really upset after there was no call made that time.

sorry if i'm confusin you, but again, english is my second language

Hawks Coach · #7 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 14, 2001, 01:28am

Then again Ilya, be thankful you didn't get hit with the intentional, which sounds like it was warranted. If you read our discussion in another thread, we already got hit with one in a tight game, far less obvious a call than what you describe.

What I wanna know is why kids don't watch more TV. Lost two close games recently because the other team hit key free throws. Most free throw shooting these days is atrocious - why can't these other teams get on board?

ilya · #8 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 14, 2001, 01:17pm

I don't know if the refs in our rec league even call intentional..
besides, he didn't have a clear pass to the basket, since i was in front of him.

if i'm not mistaken, intentional is if the player has a clear pass to the basket, and you foul him from behind w/o actually trying to get the ball (ie it's not a reaching in foul or something)
am i right?

mick · #9 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 14, 2001, 01:44pm

Quote:

Originally posted by ilya
I don't know if the refs in our rec league even call intentional..
besides, he didn't have a clear pass to the basket, since i was in front of him.

if i'm not mistaken, intentional is if the player has a clear pass to the basket, and you foul him from behind w/o actually trying to get the ball (ie it's not a reaching in foul or something)
am i right?

An intentional foul is when a ref thinks you fouled a person on purpose. Whether it is to stop the clock, or stop a layup, or just because you don't like him doesn't make any difference.
mick

ilya · #10 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 14, 2001, 02:38pm

oh alright, thanks.

BktBallRef · #11 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 14, 2001, 06:32pm

Quote:

Originally posted by ilya
I don't know if the refs in our rec league even call intentional..
besides, he didn't have a clear pass to the basket, since i was in front of him.

if i'm not mistaken, intentional is if the player has a clear pass to the basket, and you foul him from behind w/o actually trying to get the ball (ie it's not a reaching in foul or something)
am i right?

No, you are mistaken, I'm afraid. An intentional foul has nothing to do with whether the player has a clear path to the basket or not.

4-19-3
An intentional foul is a personal or technical foul designed to stop or keep the clock from starting, to neutralize an opponent's obvious advantageous position, contact away from the ball or when not playing the ball. It may or may not be premeditated and is not based on the severity of the act. A foul also shall be ruled intentional if while playing the ball a player causes excessive contact with an opponent.

MattRef · #12 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 14, 2001, 07:33pm

I have a question about the "If the ball is in the hand, the hand is considered to be part of the ball," thing. If that is the case, then when someone goes to block a shot and contacts the hand as well, is there a foul or no call?
Matt

mick · #13 (**permalink**) Sun Jan 14, 2001, 07:43pm

Quote:

Originally posted by MattRef
I have a question about the "If the ball is in the hand, the hand is considered to be part of the ball," thing. If that is the case, then when someone goes to block a shot and contacts the hand as well, is there a foul or no call?
Matt

Matt,
In general practice, that play is a "no call". If the defender hits some of the wrist with the hand, it will probably be called as a foul.
If a defender hits the dribbling hand on the ball, that, too, is legal.
mick

rainmaker · #14 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 15, 2001, 01:16am

Quote:

Originally posted by mick
If the defender hits some of the wrist with the hand, it will probably be called as a foul.
If a defender hits the dribbling hand on the ball, that, too, is legal.
mick

Ilya and Matt--

Remember this excellent description the next time you hear a screaming fan yell, "My God, ref, I heard that one all the way up here!!"

Hawks Coach · #15 (**permalink**) Mon Jan 15, 2001, 08:47pm

I know a slap on the hand, and have received a few in my day - got no points last time in traffic court

When you get that ringing slap, you're gonna have a hard time convincing me they got hand. 99% of the time it was more than a high five. You still have to decide if you have a call, but I think the resounding slap no-calls annoy me more than any others. That there was contact!