Excessive timeout

[Jay R]

NCAA Men's rules. Team A calls a timeout it does not have.
Penalty is indirect technical foul; 2 shots and POI.

Question. Does Team A get its TO and then you shoot the FTs or are the 2 FTs shot before they get their TO?

[ChuckElias]

Jay, we've had this discussion before and I'm not sure we ever came to a concensus. I think you shoot the FTs and continue where you left off, which was letting the teams go to their benches.

[Camron Rust]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
Jay, we've had this discussion before and I'm not sure we ever came to a concensus. I think you shoot the FTs and continue where you left off, which was letting the teams go to their benches.

Are you sure? I certainly don't have any definitive answer but here's my thinking:

You don't have a timeout until its granted. Once it is granted, you take it then and all activity is suspended until the timeout is over. Thus, for an excessive timeout, the shots would be taken after the timeout.

For NCAA, the POI part would be the only difference with NFHS where the opposing team would get the ball at the division line.

Again, not sure about this (particularly for NCAA).

[Stat-Man]

Originally posted by Camron Rust
Are you sure? I certainly don't have any definitive answer but here's my thinking:

You don't have a timeout until its granted. Once it is granted, you take it then and all activity is suspended until the timeout is over. Thus, for an excessive timeout, the shots would be taken after the timeout.

For NCAA, the POI part would be the only difference with NFHS where the opposing team would get the ball at the division line.

Again, not sure about this (particularly for NCAA).

In NCAA-W, an excessive timeout also results in loss of possession of the ball. Had this sitch in a game this winter, and the officials almost went to POI.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Camron Rust

Are you sure?

I'm sure that's what I think. But I'm not sure what I think is right. I'd love to have a definitive answer.

[Nevadaref]

For NCAA men couldn't someone just watch the UNC-Michigan NCAA final in which Chris Webber called the excessive TO and see what they did?

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by Nevadaref
For NCAA men couldn't someone just watch the UNC-Michigan NCAA final in which Chris Webber called the excessive TO and see what they did?

We could (and I'm always one for ESPN Classic), but the POI rules weren't in effect back then.

I see the timeout and the technical as simultaneous (you can't give the technical until TO is granted, and you can't grant TO without giving a technical.) Whether you shoot the FT's, then go to TO or go to TO and then shoot the FT's, I don't think it matters (much) as the offending team is going to use all of the timeout time and all of the time during the opponent's free throws. To me, however, the POI philosophy means get the FT's over with ASAP - shoot the shots, then go to the timeout.

Now, my question is do you go to a media timeout (if it's the appropriate time) because of the T, or does an extra timeout get factored in just like a legal timeout does?

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
Now, my question is do you go to a media timeout (if it's the appropriate time) because of the T, or does an extra timeout get factored in just like a legal timeout does?

Don't really know, Mark. I would guess that you treat the excessive TO as if it weren't excessive.

BTW, I believe that the media TO rules will change this year so that if the media TO is caused by a shooting foul, the TO is taken immediately and the FT are shot after the TO.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by ChuckElias

BTW, I believe that the media TO rules will change this year so that if the media TO is caused by a shooting foul, the TO is taken immediately and the FT are shot after the TO.

Great - just when I've finally convinced everyone that the "first timeout in the second half" rule applies to 30 and 60 second timeouts, they go and change the media TO rules again.

Frankly, I'm surprised it took them this long to change it. The media aren't happy when they 'lose' a media timeout because of free throws, and the fans aren't happy when, because of free throws, you have two media timeouts spaced only seconds apart.

[ChuckElias]

I can understand the reasoning for not going straight to the TO (don't want to "ice" the shooter, unless it's the coach's idea), but I like the "NBA" version better, personally.

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by ChuckElias
I can understand the reasoning for not going straight to the TO (don't want to "ice" the shooter, unless it's the coach's idea), but I like the "NBA" version better, personally.

The NBA version is timeout, then come back to shoot the FT's?

As to icing the shooter, I don't think that a known timeout would effect the shooter as much as a called timeout, as the shooter has time to prepare mentally. The waiting aspect will still apply, but rarely will this occur with just a few seconds on the clock - when it has the most effect on the outcome of the game.

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by Mark Dexter
The NBA version is timeout, then come back to shoot the FT's?

Yes. The mandatory TOs occur at the first stoppage of play at or after the 5:59 mark and 2:59 mark of the 1st and 3rd quarters; and at the first stoppage at or after the 8:59 mark, the 5:59 mark and the 2:59 mark or the 2nd and 4th quarters.