how to deal with terrible refs

Originally posted by WeekendRef
"Several players have gone down and not gotten up"

The next time a player tells me he is "getting killed" I will let him know that in the DC metro area kids actually die on the court and the refs still don't call a foul...
Nice one Punk !

I never said anyone died. Not very helpful or informative weekender. Hope you keep the table and coaches better informed.

[Jurassic Referee]

Originally posted by ballpunk
JR

That's ballpunk not fanboy. Try to keep it clean. It's not hard to spot terrible refs. We've all seen too many of them and, as they say, it ain't rocket science, it's a game. In my book, terrible refs are not just inconsistent, illinformed or stupid, they exhibit some bias towards a team, player or coach that diminishes the spirit of basketball. Your suggestion about "strapping on a whistle" (obviously an oxymoron) is good. Unfortunately, I am physically unable to do so. Oh, and, here's the lawyer part...I never said you were retierd from reffing.

Oh my. Not only are the refs "inconsistent","illinformed" and "stupid", they are also "biased". Oh my.

Hmmmmm. Might be a good idea to go for a l'il walk before I answer this one, ballpunk. Maybe wander over to the fridge and get a sip of sumthin'. Lemme get back to you with my answer in a coupla minutes.

Oh, my.

Ditto my reply to weekender DamRef. On all your posts.

Originally posted by Dan_ref

If you have the authority hire better refs, which means finding them and paying higher fees, at least.

If you have no authority you can always find an internet message board to vent.

Thems your choices.

[Snake~eyes]

Originally posted by ballpunk
That's ballpunk not fanboy. Try to keep it clean. It's not hard to spot terrible refs. We've all seen too many of them and, as they say, it ain't rocket science, it's a game. In my book, terrible refs are not just inconsistent, illinformed or stupid, they exhibit some bias towards a team, player or coach that diminishes the spirit of basketball.

I'm pretty sure it does fall under rocket science, it isn't as easy as it looks. I would also like to know your credentials which allow you to judge officials.

Originally posted by ballpunk
I never said you were retierd from reffing.

That's not what I read...

Originally posted by ballpunk
Jurassic Ref was wrong again. YBOA = Youth Basketball of America. Glad you are retired JR.

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee

I am quite sure JR knew what YBOA is. He is much closer to the real world (on his good days) where YBOA actually attempts to exist than I am.
He is a kidder guy. Pick on someone else who you may have a chance to one-up.

[/B]

Yeah, JR knew what YBOA was, Mick. JR wasn't kidding though. JR gets very upset when people indiscriminately dump on officials without being able to give a REAL good reason why they are doing so. Now, if Mr. ballpunk can maybe give us some PROOF(using the rules, mechanics,etc.) that the officials were bad, instead of saying something that might be classed as "hearsay" in a court of law, then maybe Mr. ballpunk might be better received. Maybe a good analogy would be some clown saying that ALL Little League umps are terrible. [/B][/QUOTE]

JR

I try to avoid situations where I'd be stuck "teaching my grandmother to suck eggs." That's why I took a general approach in this thread. You see, my comments are not hearsay. I'm the witness and I'm available for questioning. No, it's not a good analogy.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by ballpunk
Ditto my reply to weekender DamRef. On all your posts.

I'm not sure what you're getting all pissy about little boy, you asked & I told you.

If you have the authority then hire better refs. Or stfu.

Simple. Even for you.

Anyway, maybe you'll feel better if you get away from the computer & go for a run or something. I find excersize tends to make me feel better about myself. Don't you?

[mick]

Okay let's start over.

Hi ballpunk,
Welcome to the forum.
Have you had a nice day?

Let me introduce you to some forum members.
Oh, you've met.

Do you have any specific concerns about the quality of YBOA officials that may be articulated and shared? Please keep in mind that most of us do not work that level of hoops.



mick

[ChuckElias]

Originally posted by ballpunk
JR

That's ballpunk not fanboy. Try to keep it clean.

Um, is "fanboy" somehow vulgar? It's just a term we use around here to denote people who are fans of the game, but know nothing about officiating; especially those who want to criticize the officials. Sorry if it seemed offensive to you. It shouldn't be.

It's not hard to spot terrible refs. We've all seen too many of them and, as they say, it ain't rocket science, it's a game.

So how do you spot terrible refs? Seriously, how do you personally judge an official's ability? And please don't talk about bias, b/c honestly, you are more biased (while watching the game) than any official who is working the games in question. I don't mean that you would cheat!! I mean only that you care about who wins. You have some sort of rooting interest in the game. The officials couldn't care less which team wins. Somehow people don't seem to understand that.

And while officiating is not rocket science, I assure you that it is much much more than a game. It's difficult, it's hard work, it's competitive. If the official goes to camps to improve (which many of us do), then it's also very expensive, and still most people think the officials are either blind, stupid, or cheaters. You try making 20 judgments per second under those conditions. It's no game, believe me.

And as officials advance through the ranks, people's jobs (coaches, mostly) are actually on the line with the officials' calls. So the pressure to be correct only increases. That obviously doesn't apply to the officials you observed; but please don't presume to come in here and tell us how easy a game this is.

In my book, terrible refs are not just inconsistent, illinformed or stupid, they exhibit some bias towards a team,

With all respect, and I mean that sincerely, this statement simply shows your absolute and complete ignorance. Officials simply don't care who wins. Even if there were an official who was favoring one team (and I admit the theoretical possibility), there is no way you could have a whole tournament's worth of biased officials. If you truly believe you have rampant bias among officials, you're not living in reality. Sorry to disappoint you.

Your suggestion about "strapping on a whistle" (obviously an oxymoron) is good.

I don't see how it's an oxymoron. You could buy a lanyard (essentially a thin rope strap) and attach a whistle to it. Put the lanyard around your neck and you have strapped on a whistle. Have I misunderstood your point?

Oh, and, here's the lawyer part...I never said you were retierd from reffing.

(from previous post in this same thread. . .) Glad you are retired JR.

Um. . . Although you did not use the words "JR has retired from officiating", the fact that you are glad that he is retired logically implies that you believe that he is retired. You therefore implicitly stated your belief that JR is retired. You may wish to reconsider "the lawyer part".

Now, here's the sympathetic part. If conditions are truly as you describe them -- elbows connecting with opponent's heads and players being intentionally maimed without fouls being called -- then you should immediately withdraw your team and/or child(ren) from that league. In all honesty, however, I don't think it can be as bad as you claim.

[Robmoz]

Sometimes it is better to be quiet and let others think you are ignorant than to open your mouth and remove all doubt.

Granted, BP's public debating skills may be lacking but he/she sure does make for great entertainment. I like the line about "strap-ons = oxymoron", no doubt.

[Hawks Coach]

ballpunk
We went to YBOA Nationals last year, girls side. Games were physical, but clean. If you personally had a group that got their butts kocked on the floor all game, my bet is that they were ill-prepared. I can't help but believe you are a supporter of a team as opposed to a disinterested observer.

Every game of 7 we played was well-officiated. Every single game. We got our butts handed to us a few times, deserved it. We weren't prepared for what we faced (and that day in Disney didn't help our bracket results any, believe me!). We also handed it out - they weren't prepared for what they faced in that instance.

And while some bash AAU here, my outlook is a bit different since I come from that environment. There are some real jerks, but the girls side of the house features as well-played girls games as you will see. These are all-star teams that play together, run offense, play defense, run the court - it is a fun game. And most girls YBOA is SE US girls AAU. We saw the state champs and runners up from FL, GA, TN, etc. Really awesome talent on the court, really well coached. I do know that boys is different in how players are treated and how the games are played. But those kids can flat out play too, and it is better than summer league ball by a good distance.

[BktBallRef]

ballpunk, you're a fanboy because you came here to whine about your team. We know you're a fanboy because we get whiny-a$$ cry babies like yourself here all the time. You aren't interested in fair officiating. You're interested in your team winning.

You've presented absolutely no credentials to make you an expert on officiating. Contrary to fanboy opinions, watching basketball for years DOES NOT make you an officiating expert. Have you ever officiated? I doubt it. Have you ever read a rulebook? I'll bet a $100 that the answer is no. Yet, you know "terrible" officiating" when you see it.

Have you considered that the c oaches have a responsibility to control their players? What a unique concept, eh?!?

BTW, f*** the YBOA. They wanted to play tournaments in my area. They wanted to pay two officials $15 each for a boys' game. We get $28 each for a girls game, 3 man crew. Yet, they're taking in hundreds and hundreds of dollars at the gate. No, I don't think so.

I'm done.

[Hawks Coach]

Originally posted by BktBallRef
BTW, f*** the YBOA. They wanted to play tournaments in my area. They wanted to pay two officials $15 each for a boys' game. We get $28 each for a girls game, 3 man crew. Yet, they're taking in hundreds and hundreds of dollars at the gate. No, I don't think so.

Interesting. They are clearly a money machine when you go to their tourneys. Charge admission to everything, they have sponsorships out the wazoo, of course we pay our entry - $15/game is ridiculous. Not sure what their balance sheet looks like, but I am willing to bet your same $100 that they could do better than that for the refs.

On the plus side, we had fun there last year!

Originally posted by mick

JR,
Well that's simply not true!
Only some of us are.
mick

Sure it's true.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by ballpunk

Sure it's true.

Hi little boy.

How was that run?

[mick]

Originally posted by ballpunk

Sure it's true.

ballpunk,
I don't wanna play with you anymore.
You don't play nicely. I'm goin' home.

mick