It's tough being a rookie

[Rookie]

I was working a Soph and JV girls game the other night. When the JV game started a couple of the Soph girls were in the lineup for the JV game. I spoke with my partner, and she began to research this in the rule book, the coach of said team, began to berate me that this is none of my concern, this is a UIL issue and not a NFHS. I asked him to relax, we wanted to review our rule book and we would start in a second. I spoke with the Varstiy refs, between games and they stated, that when a school only plays one game in a week, the players can play on 2 squads, regardless of that, he told me this issue is not under the responsibilies of the officials. Lesson learned.

Now, let me play devils advocate. What if I work the same school twice in one week, and I know a certain player worked in 3 or 4 games. As the vet official told me this is not my concern. Do I fill out a report?

[Brian Watson]

It depnds on the state. Here, there are quarter limits. If it is brought to our attention, we remove the player.

I don't think I would go looking for this though, I trust the schools to monitor their own playing time. If they don't, the state can issue the sanctions.

[Indy_Ref]

This is where the AD (or the equivalent) needs to step in and report the infraction to the state association. If this happens, it will be an opportunity to "check" the AD's (or school's) integrity.

I had a similar situation in my first game from last year. Varsity girls' game, start of the fourth quarter, A9 reports to the table. B's scorekeeper says that A9 had played 3 quarters in the JV game and that the fourth quarter of the varsity game was going to be her 3rd quarter in that particular game. In our state, a player is only allowed to play 5 quarters/night. At the time, neither my partner nor I knew what the proper ruling was supposed to be. Later, I found out that this situation is out of the official's jurisdiciton, and that it was up to the schools to take care of the problem. It ended up being a moot issue since it was finally determined that A10 was really the one who had played 3 quarters of the JV game.

Mr. Watson says, "If it is brought to our attention, we remove the player." However, in our state, we do not remove the player. We might point out to the coach that he/she is going to have a big problem (i.e. probably a forfeit) if he decides to play the offending player.

[Ron Pilo]

I understand the concern to enforce rule however it is not the officials responsibility to enforce playing time rules. If and when an infraction occurs it is up to the school to deal with it.

I have had coaches come up to me in the middle of a game and inform me that a player was playing it their 6th qtr of the day. I just let them know it is not my responsility to enforce this and they need to take it up with the League and state.

[Brian Watson]

I agree with Indy and Ron, but when in rome...

I came from IN, and I had the same feeling, not my issue take it up with the state.

However, here, if brought to our attention, we must remove the player. We are to treat it like an ejected player coming back in the game, with exceptions. It is a team T, no indirect or direct to the coach.

[Bradley Batt]

Now, let me play devils advocate. What if I work the same school twice in one week, and I know a certain player worked in 3 or 4 games. As the vet official told me this is not my concern. Do I fill out a report?

Coming from another Texas official, I would say don't worry about this. You are right - rookies have it hard - and they have too much to worry about to go looking for trouble. This is not something that is your responsibility - it is truly the responsibility of the coach.

That being said, the coach should not have acted so harshly when you were just trying to figure out if it was something that you needed to enforce. It's unbelievable how some of these coaches act - especially at the sub-varsity and junior high level.

[bob jenkins]

Originally posted by Brian Watson
I agree with Indy and Ron, but when in rome...

I came from IN, and I had the same feeling, not my issue take it up with the state.

However, here, if brought to our attention, we must remove the player. We are to treat it like an ejected player coming back in the game, with exceptions. It is a team T, no indirect or direct to the coach.

So, what if it's "brought to your attention," you remove the player, then it's discovered later that whoever brought it to your attention was in error?

I'm assuming it will usually be the other team that brings it to your attention. Do they then forfeit the game?

What a mess (and that's directed at the IHSAA, or whatever it's called, not at Brian)

[Brian Watson]

Actually, it is the OHSAA. I have never had this happen, but if it was me, I would expect the home books to be presented to me at the table. If I cannot verify it, we go on.

If I look in the JV book and see 4 quarters and the Varsity and see 2, buh-bye.

I agree this puts us on the spot, but I don't think it happens very often. We also have yearly quarter limits, but I am not even going near that one.

[Hawks Coach]

I don't know what IHSAA is thinking on this, but this seems to be something that is outside the scope of what a ref should be doing. Player eligibility issues should be handled the same, whether it is a academic issue, age issue, or issue of being eligible to be in that quarter. these are usually handled by an opposing team protest of an alleged violation or by the state association acting when it has knowledge of a violation.

[Sven]

I do a lot of score keeping for games where the HS Varsity plays directly after the JV contest. Nebraska School Activities Association Bylaws limit the player to six quarters per day in such situations. The penalty for violation is a technical foul and the player must be removed from the game.

It's never happened to me while I've been at the table... but if a player who had reached the limit reported, I'd tell him he couldn't enter and why... and then have the floor officials back me up if the coach came calling.

Sven

[Mark Dexter]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
I don't know what IHSAA is thinking on this, but this seems to be something that is outside the scope of what a ref should be doing. Player eligibility issues should be handled the same, whether it is a academic issue, age issue, or issue of being eligible to be in that quarter. these are usually handled by an opposing team protest of an alleged violation or by the state association acting when it has knowledge of a violation.

I definately agree with Hawks Coach on this one.

With all of the different leagues and state associations, it can get far too difficult for the officials to know or even care about all of the eligibility rules. Leave these up to the league/state office, where they have people to research these situations.

Before you know it, you'll have opposing coaches saying "#15 is ineligible because he flunked a history test today! .

[Tim Roden]

I agree with everyone else. When I became an official, I was given an NFHS rule book not a state rule book. When I got my state booklet all it told me to do was report Technical fouls and issues reguarding sportsmanship or improper equipment. I have no idea and don't even care what the rules are in reguards to how many quarters, games or what not a player can play in a night. I don't even care if a player plays three games in a night and starts in every game and playes every quarter. If that is illegal, then it must be delt with by the coaches and the state. The officials have nothing to do with it.

[williebfree]

Our state (WI) does not want officials dealing with this issue. Having the regulation reminds me of the concept of "restraining" orders, it is only as good as the "integrity of the violator". I am thankful we, as WIAA officals, are not forced to be the "quarter cops". I am going to let them play and let the WIAA deal with it.

The antics describing the (loosely applied title) "coach", in the original posting, indicate a guy who is not up to the task of coaching his team. Generally speaking, it has been my experience that the lower(levels) you go the worse the coach conduct becomes. There can be a variety of explanations. Commonly, it is their inability to coach which makes them frustrated and they appease themselves by nitpicking the officiating.

[JRutledge]

Just like in Baseball, their is restrictions that each state may have on how many innings a pitcher can pitch. It is not the umpires role to enforce this in any way. It is the coaches and opposing coaches to make sure these rules are followed. You have no way of know who did what and when they played, because in Illinois, it is a quarter rule. I have no way of knowing how many quarters a player has played all year and I would not know either. If a rule is violated, believe me schools will tell on each other, and if they do not it affects them not you. We are responsible for the rules within the confines of the game, not what goes on outside of it.