I've noticed that some refs seem proud of T'ing up coaches, while others seem equally proud of rarely doing so. Please consider that many times the coach wants to get T'ed up for some arcane reason. See this story for an AAU coach who credits getting an unsportsmanlike technical foul for his team's victory: http://www.tallahassee.com/mld/talla...ts/8973398.htm
So you may actually be doing the coach a favor! I wonder if he gave the ref the game ball.

Jimgolf,
I've heard coaches do that (ie, say they did it for the team inspiration.) I just don't believe it.

I think they are trying to excuse their idiocy, inappropriate behavior and lack of motivational and teaching skills.

Bovine Scat!

mick

From a coach's perspective, there are always times when a coach feels that he needs to stand up in some way for his team. Perhaps the players on his team felt they were getting the short end of some calls and that caused them to lose focus on what they needed to do to win the game. When the coach gets involved in that way, one of two things can happen: the players will realize that the coach will take care of discussing calls, or the players will get more distracted and the parents at this level will lower themselves to the level of the coach. This kind of tactic is only effective in sparking a team if the coach is honest with his team, generally respectful toward the officials and he has the respect of his players. If a typical "howler monkey" attempts this, in my experience, it causes the players to further lose focus and look for excuses to fail. The way the article presents it, though, it seems as if this is a viable tactic. It is not, and it can only work in very limited circumstances.

Put me down as "none of the above". Technical fouls are just another foul that comes up in the course of a game. Every referee sets their own personal line or limit. When it's crossed, then that's when they're gonna start T'ing people up. Pride doesn't enter into the equation usually. You just do what you have to do to keep the game under control, and make sure that it's being played in at least a half-way sporting manner. You also have to differentiate between what the usual expectations for conduct reasonably should be at each age level too. Certainly, you call the game much differently when you're dealing with NCAA level players vs. middle school kids.

Personally, the coach of a 14 and under team, as in this article, is gonna get very little slack from me. If he wants a T to prove some arcane point to himself, his kids or parents- hey, that's fine with me. I'm gonna keep him real happy- and in a hurry too. He's also gonna sit his butt on the bench from then on, and he's not gonna get up when he's not supposed to. And if he's planning on making any further points to me, he'd better plan on doing so from the parking lot. I just personally believe that the coaches of the younger age groups should never be worrying about making any kind of point to the officials. They got too much to worry about actually coaching their own kids, without wasting any of their valuable time on us.

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Jun 22nd, 2004 at 05:58 PM]

I read the story. If this guy can only "inspire" his team by behaving badly, he's pathetic.

Would anyone suggest this method be used in the classroom?

AMEN!!

Inspire his team? Maybe he quit trying to call the game and actually started coaching. This has been my experience with coaches at lower levels.

I don't get off on giving T's, nor do I mind giving out a deserved one. They are just a tool for us to use to control a game if required.

I highly doubt that the AAU coach of a 14-year old team <i>intended</i> to get a T to fire up his team. However, it makes for a better-sounding quote than, "we were getting outplayed and outcoached. Rather than trying positive methods, I took my frustration out on the officials because I didn't want to accept responsibility."

Z

Well, only from very experienced teachers (like myself). I have found that public humiliation and throwing temper tantrums in the classroom serve to motivate my 7th grade students to aspire to heights they never dreamed of...well, actually they just sit there in stunned silence - but quiet is good!!

PS: Please note that this was very much tongue in cheek!!

PPS: I am becoming more and more convinced that too many officials do not give T's when they are warranted, and too many absolutely refuse to give the second one when it is richly deserved...as JR stated - it should be just another call in our games...

I agree. When I walk in to do a game there are two things that I remind myself of:

The first is a piece of advice from someone with much more experience than I - "remember that you and your partner are in all probability the only two people in the gym that are completely impartial and have no vested interest in the outcome of the game".

The second is that an important part of my job as an official is to act as the voice of reason in an otherwise chaotic world. Be above the chaos, keep your cool, don't react emotionally.

As Z-MAN said, T's are simply another tool that we have at our disposal to deal with conduct that crosses the line. I neither relish nor regret assessing a T when it is deserved - it's simply part of the job we undertake.

Tea for two
 

dj,
<LI>The ejection mechanic is unclear.
<LI>The paperwork is daunting.
<LI>Officials are not trained to do this.

Make it a POE, and watch 'em leave.
mick

T's should be just another call..............
 

but that is not the real world. We talk more about the Ts that take place in games then we do a single handchecking foul call in the first few minutes of the game. So in my opinion they are very different. They also bring more questions from assignors and evaluators than any other call. So I really do not understand why people feel they are just another call?

Having said that, if you have to take care of business, do that. I feel if I can solve the very same problem with words or a conversation, I win. I would rather not give a T and say something in a quiet way, then T someone and the whole world speculates on what just took place. Usually the better Ts is when everyone can hear and see the behavior of a coach or player. But when that does not happen, you do what you have to do. I just do not buy the fact that you call it just like any other foul. I also do not buy that a coach does this to motivate his players either. That is just a cop out to justify their behavior.

Peace

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Amen...Brother!

Many of these Coaches watch Bobby Knight type coaches on television and see this as some sort of inspiration for themselves. They see these coaches getting away with stuff that is totally inappropriate in an AAU/Middle School setting.
NCAA leans toward big business, AAU should lean toward sportsmanship...and we as officials can help "guide" the Coaches and players in that direction of appropriate behavior.

Re: Tea for two
 

Mick, what paperwork are you referring to?? I have been involved in the ejection of several coaches over the years, both HS and above, and have never had to do more than report to my supervisor or assignor. Maybe they handled paperwork, but I have never done more than make some phone calls...and to respond to JRut, there may be more questions about the T's, but if the T was deserved, those quaestions are followed by a "Good job" type comment...only once was I second-guessed about a T (in a college game), and my partners both heard what was said and backed me up so it worked out fine...

Re: Re: Tea for two
 

Michigan requires written report for ejections.
Now, I am wondering if that does not apply to the second T.

(I've never given a second.)
mick

Re: Re: Tea for two
 

Rocky, in my HS and college games, we are required to fill out an ejection sheet, whether it's for a player or for a coach. For HS, the home school's AD gets a copy and the state athletic association gets a copy. For college, my assignor gets a copy and the ECAC office gets a copy.

Re: Re: Tea for two
 

I will not speak just for Mick, but any ejection in my state and even some college conferences require a report to be filed. Any ejection of a coach, player or fan in my state the officials have to file a report with the IHSA for all HS games. I think that is the case in most states.

You just proved my point. If it was just another call, why are you having to talk to an assignor about it? I cannot ever think of a time I had to explain a foul call early in a game. I have had to explain a ruling I have made during a game, but never just a foul call I have made.

Peace

Many of these Coaches watch Bobby Knight type coaches on television and see this as some sort of inspiration for themselves. They see these coaches getting away with stuff that is totally inappropriate in an AAU/Middle School setting.

[/B][/QUOTE]Agree completely, Dude. And I think that the same holds true for some of their players. They see NCAA or NBA players on TV questioning calls, or putting on a little show- and they think that it's OK for them to do the exact same thing.

Ever notice that the sharper or better the coach, the less that they also usually have to say to you? And when they do say something, it's usually reasonable or logical? And when they're done saying it ONCE to you, they don't try to give instant replay on the same thing your next 3 trips by them? It seems to me that the coaches that still aren't sure which end of a basketball is the bouncy end are usually the ones that want to spend more of their time yapping at the officials than they do actually coaching or teaching their players.

Originally posted by Jurassic Referee
Absolutely...and part of the reason is that the sharp coaches know they have a sharp referee! :D

Sheesh, I'm going to have to stop agreeing so much with King JR...I'm going to ruin what little reputation I may have. ;)

Just funnin' about the King thing...
"Uneasy lies the head that wears the crown."

Interesting...as I said, I've never filled out paperwork, just called supervisors and told them what happened. They must fill out any paperwork and send it in based on what I tell them over the phone...hmmm...

Ditto!

Maybe it's a *Wild, Wild West* thingy.
mick

I've only been reffing one year, but I've attended A LOT of games of all levels in my lifetime. I can alwasy tell (from the stands) when a coach wants to get T'd for motivation sake. Sadly, it works as often as it fails, especially when it's the home team with the home crowd. You may not want to believe it, and I understand why, but you'd be kidding yourself.

Some coaches see T's like we see them, it's just a call. So if they can use that call to inspire their team, I don't have a problem with it. That's not childish or idiotic to me.

One man's stuff is another's bread and butter. ;)
mick

If it's JUST another call, how come they never tell their point guard to double dribble to inspire their team?

Because they've never seen that particular method work in the past. But you know coaches, they'll try ANYTHING they think will work. In fact, I wouldn't be suprised to hear that a coach has tried that.

LOL! You know, it might be the Colt Peacemaker I have strapped to my hip while I'm reffing that keeps the coaches calm...or possibly the sawed-off 12-gauge I hand to the timer to keep under the bar, errr, table...

Re: Re: Re: Tea for two
 

My association has a senior varsity official assigned to handle all T's. By this I mean that if I give a T in a scholastic game, I have to call that individual the same night and report it. If I have an ejection, I have to notify my assignor and fill out a written report within 24 hours.

Nope. In Portland, for an ejection, we have to fill out a written form, although it's now available on the internet, and we can do it on line. Actually, the R has to do it. Even if the U did the actual tossing.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Tea for two
 

Are these only the Ts for sportsmanship matters? I am assuming you don't have to report a T for a number not being in the book. How about a player violating the plane twice?

The concept that giving a T as just another foul is preached so emotion is taken out of the equation and rightfully so. However, it is a emotional call. It is a very good official who can T someone up with the same thought process as giving a hand check call. Lots of coaches will sit a player who gets T'd up for the rest of the game and then run them the next day. Why does this happen. It's not just a foul, it is unacceptable behavior for a student. The T happy officals out there need to keep in mind that many coaches do teach kids that it's not acceptable behavior and the following practice is probably not going to a whole lot of fun for the guity party. Not all do it, but the good ones will.

My two cents.

Like many things, calling a technical foul should be based on common sense and balance. You can't be trigger happy but you must not shy away from calling a warranted T.

In my first few years, there were times when I would go home after a game and think that I should have T'd a coach. In my effort not to T up people too fast, I was taking abuse. I have improved that part of my game.

An anecdote from last year. A fellow official from my zone ejected a coach in record time. He called a T on a coach and before reporting it to the table, he called a second one. It wasn't my game and I don't know the details of the situation. However, a week later, I was working with this same official when a coach starting chirping for various things. I warned the coach. At half, I told my partner that if the complaining continued I was going to T the coach. My partner's response was that he wasn't going to give the coach the satisfaction of calling a technical on him. Go figure.

Jay

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Tea for two
 

Only for unsportsmanship crap. Didn't really think about the admin stuff.

Sounds like someone got reprimanded and didn't want to admit it.

I can't say I've ever left a game thinking I "should" have T'd a coach. I've still never had to do it, although there have been a few occasions where I probably "could" have, but never that I "should" have.