A1 is on the side of the lane driving toward the basket, B 1 and B2 are sliding over to a defensive position. They are in the spot for a full 2-3 seconds. A1 starts a drive into them not touching them until he is up in the air, while he is in the air the arms of B1,B2,are goining up into a horizontal position, A1 gets hit buy the arms of the defenders and falls to the ground losing the ball. I was positioned where I could see the play in front of me. I called no foul. was it right??? It is time to become an official and not a fan.

I would have called it a foul.

Do you mean the arms of the defenders were raised within their VERTICAL plane? If so, I'd say you had the call correctly. Both defedners can jump vertically and occupy the space within their vertical plane. If they were leaning forward outside their plane, it's a blocking foul.

If the defenders' arms were out to the side, and the shooter contacted only the arms or mostly the arms, it's a blocking foul, especially if the defender(s) were moving their arms into that position as the shooter was going up.

Juulie, that's basically what I am saying also. :)

TravelinMan,
I'm sure Dave meant vertical, I've seen him work. ;)
mick

That's what I surmised too. Pretty much all the officials on this site are rock solid on the basics. Thanks for confirming, though. :)

A Foul?
 

What if B1 is guarding A1 who is driving, by closely staying in front of him (not standing still but running with A1) and both jump at the same time, A1 towards the basket and B1 definitely away from A1, but A1 by means of a greater leap jumps into B1 mid-air and achieves body contact (no contact of B1's arms in attempting to block the shot or any such thing) resulting in A1 mangling the shot?

Foul on B1?

Also
 

I have an objection to the replies for the original post of this thread.

From the description it sounds like B1 and B2 have established position, but meanwhile before having raised their arms in their vertical plane, A1 has jumped and is somewhat directly above them without making body contact. Then while A1 is in the air above them, B1 and B2 raise their arms vertically and make contact hitting A1 and causing him to lose the ball and fall to the ground.

This sounds like a clear foul to me, at least how i desribed it...am i right?

THanks,
Andrew

Re: Also
 

It seems to be that the shooter has penetrated and violated the defenders' vertical space.
A shooter has no additional rights.
mick

Re: A Foul?
 

If you call a foul on B1, you may have "bailed out an "out-of-control" shooter.
If B did nothing wrong, then why would we penalize him?
A shooter has no additional rights.
mick

Re: A Foul?
 

A1 jumps INTO B1 and initiates the body contact? Never a foul on B1 unless B1 sneaks under an airborne shooter- which isn't the case in the this example. Iow, I agree with Mick. If you call anything, it has to be a foul on A1.

Re: Re: Also
 

Andrew didn't really say who the "clear" foul was on- A1 or B1/B2. Agree with Mick. Can't be on either defender, by rule. They each have a legal right to their respective "cones of verticality", and the shooter is outa his "cone of verticality". :D If you call anything, it's a cheap PC foul.

Re: Re: Re: Also
 

If you no-call this the explanation to the complaining Coach B is that the defense did a good job, stopped the shot legally, and got the ball. Surely that's the best punishment for A1's bad play!

If the shot is made, though, it's not a cheap PC anymore, right? It's a gotta-getta, right?

Re: Re: Re: Re: Also
 

If the shot goes and the defense is put at no disadvantage (minor contact by A1), a *no-call* could easily work.
mick

Especially if there's a big margin in the score with only a few minutes to go.

If there's no advantage gained by A1 for making the contact with B1, no foul. Just because A1 makes a shot that he has made more difficult doesn't mean there's a foul. Unless B1 is put at a disadvantage (knocked down or out of rebounding position), there's no foul. Whether the shot goes in really doesn't matter here.

Adam (finally back home in Iowa)

Re: Re: A Foul?
 

Or unless the defender has placed a foot OOB.

Unless the arms were sticking way out away from the body why would we worry about a foul.

I have seen way too many officials take away goo defense because the defenders hands were not back even with the shoulders. Rule book never states this... Verticality means cant be outside body space. Most players the body space is largest at chest/torso area. We should allow the hands to be at least even with the chest other wise it is an uncomfortable/unreasonable guarding position.

So if the hands went up even with the chest, Id say good guarding.

I agree with Mick morelikely a no call

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Also
 

So with the no call I got a disgusted look from the player, and a yell fromn the coach telling the player to play through the non call. PS Talked to the coach after the game said I did the right thing. It is time to become an official and not a fan.

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Also
 

Dave,
The longer we do this thing the more we realize that those are not disgusted looks from players, but *stoopid* looks. ;)
mick