Black Man's game?

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by rockyroad

...as a side note, the clips I have seen of the Bird comments show Magic and LeBron James sitting there laughing, nodding their heads, and agreeing with what Bird is saying...

Really? Wow...from just reading the article I got the impression that Lebron & Carmello were disagreeing with Bird & Magic.

OTOH, of course they're going to laugh it up with Bird & Magic...what are they gonna do? Tell Bird & Magic to STFU because they don't know what they're talking about?

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by theboys
I've been thinking about this post, and Larry Bird's comments, a lot. It concerns me when people start talking about racial superiority in any form or fashion, even when a person of one race speaks of the superiority of another race. Bird makes a blanket statement about the superiority of African-American athletes which, on the surface, when you look at the make-up of D1 and pro basketball teams, appears to be true. But, I think there's more to it than race.

Take the SI article a few weeks ago, which asked why fewer African-Americans play baseball anymore. Its not because whites or hispanics are superior. It has a lot to do with culture, opportunity and, simply, sport preference.

I'll use my 15 year-old son as an example. He's white. We live in a suburb north of Atlanta, a predominately white area. Its almost impossible for my son to find a good game of pick-up basketball where we live. So, he spends a lot of time alone, doing shooting and ballhandling drills. Sometime, we'll drive an hour to Run 'N' Shoot, an indoor basketball facility on the south side of town. Several times we have been the only white people in the gym. Is the gym full of superior athletes? No. Its full of people who play basketball all the time. My son holds his own because he plays basketball all the time.

I mean, there are exceptions - Kobe, Tracy, Vince, etc. But, was Kareem a superior athlete, or a person with an incredible work ethic?

Sorry for the long post. I just think when we start talking about racial superiority we start heading down a slippery slope.

I think you make a great point. But I do believe that most Athletes in America are African-American. But it is not because of some genetic disposition. It is because of opportunity and focus. It is the very reason that all around the world, some of the most successful atheletes are some of the poorest communities. When you have little economic opportunity in other aspects of life, you tend to focus on athletics and especially those sports that are not very expensive to play (Soccer and basketball for example). I think this is the very reason African-Americans excel at basketball. There is a basketball court in every poor community in the country. There are only a very small percentage of communities that have a hockey rink for example.

Sports are completely about opportunity and focus. The reason that the Williams sisters are just about the only Black players on the world circuit. I am sure they could have been just as good of basketball players or track athletes if their Father focused them in that direction. But instead he choose Tennis and they are where they are today because of that focus.

Peace

[rockyroad]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Really? Wow...from just reading the article I got the impression that Lebron & Carmello were disagreeing with Bird & Magic.

OTOH, of course they're going to laugh it up with Bird & Magic...what are they gonna do? Tell Bird & Magic to STFU because they don't know what they're talking about?

I'm just going by the clips they showed on the news this a.m., but it didn't seem like there was much disagreement there...otoh, like you said, what are they gonna say??? Bird has never struck me as being very concerned about the whole PC thing, or really caring what others think - so he says what he wants...

[BktBallRef]

Some of the interview ran last night on Sports Center. And yes, Carmello, LeBron, and Magic were laughing and nodding in agreement to some of the things Bird said.

My thoughts:
Not everything that is said regarding races should be considered racist. I didn't find Dusty Baker's remarks offensive, and thy were probably stronger comments than Bird's. Quite honestly, I think some of Bird's remarks, about being guarded by a white guy, were said somewhat tongue in cheek but also with a some honesty.

My guess is that the demographics have changed with regards to NBA fans. I think there are probably fewer white fans than in the past. I know I don't watch it as much as I used to. It has nothing to do with there being fewer white players in the league. I'm just not as interested in the league since Jerry Reinsdorf and Jerry Krause broke up the Bulls. I usually watch the playoffs but hey, I even watch hockey playoffs. Jordan transcended race AND sport making the NBA much more popular with fans of all races.

I'm in the schools everyday. Most of the kids wearing NBA jerseys are black males. I think it's obvious that these youngsters want to emulate and watch successful black athletes. It just seems natural to me for there to be more black viewers drawn to the NBA.

And hopefully, I didn't offend anyone.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by JRutledge

I think you make a great point. But I do believe that most Athletes in America are African-American.

Peace

Admittedly I'm guessing - and so are you of course - but right off the bat I would have to disagree with this, unless you confine your definition of an athlete to some sports like football, basketball and maybe some track events. I bet the ncaa keeps these statistics somewhere though.

But I do agree that the sport a particular athlete winds up focussing on is not just due to his ability, but due to his opportunity and even pressure from parents & peers.

Explains why you see more hockey players than water polo players coming out of the northeast and Canada than in Arizona & Southern California.

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

But I do agree that the sport a particular athlete winds up focussing on is not just due to his ability, but due to his opportunity and even pressure from parents & peers.

Explains why you see more hockey players than water polo players coming out of the northeast and Canada than in Arizona & Southern California.

And vice versa.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by BktBallRef

Jordan transcended race AND sport making the NBA much more popular with fans of all races.

Great point...similar with Muhammad Ali and Joe Dimaggio...but Barry Bonds could be a Korean born in Australia and he would still be a jerk. As would Roger Clemens.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Dan_ref


Admittedly I'm guessing - and so are you of course - but right off the bat I would have to disagree with this, unless you confine your definition of an athlete to some sports like football, basketball and maybe some track events. I bet the ncaa keeps these statistics somewhere though.

Well basketball and football are near the top of the most played sports in America. The NF has listed that information every year, not sure it is on their website.

In my area there are Hockey and Lacross teams for example, but they are club sports and not supported by the IHSA. Only a very small percentage of schools have any of these sports and it is usually in the more affluent communities. And these are communities that are not bubbling over with people of color in those schools. Even in the NHL, there are way more players from other countries than from America. The TV ratings are also a reflection of that as well.

Originally posted by Dan_ref
Explains why you see more hockey players than water polo players coming out of the northeast and Canada than in Arizona & Southern California.

This also explains why many pro basketball athletes come from Chicago, New York or Philly as well. And many other pro football players come from Dallas, Miami or the many other communities that have a great deal of African-Americans.

Peace

[Dan_ref]

fwiw, ncaa report on ethnicity. remember, this is an ncaa report so it's not reflective of the entire US population.

lots of charts, have fun.

http://www.ncaa.org/library/research...cityReport.pdf

[Damian]

A few weeks ago, there were some talking heads on ESPN that were black talking about Larry Bird and saying that if he was not white, there would not be anyone talking about him. They said he was not that good, his reputation was overblown...all because he was white.

This seemed a bit more racial than the article you are discussing.

[Jimgolf]

When I first saw this story, I thought it had been planted by Bill Parcells to get the heat off.

First off, Bird is from small-town Indiana, despite having been a millionaire all these years. While he is not a racist, he is a product of his environment and will express things in a way that may not always seem politically correct.

There is a segment of the population that will no longer watch professional basketball now that black players frequently make up the entire rotation for many teams, with white players in largely mop-up roles. But these morons will not come back for one or two token white stars, and the NBA is better off without them, anyway.

There are fans that would root for players of there own background, whether ethnic or geographic, but very few under 30 who see things simply in such black and white terms. The younger fans don't remember any other situation and are just watching the game. In this respect we have something to learn from them.

There are people in power in the NBA who think in black and white (witness the Knicks' Scott Layden bringing in all the Utahans and foeigners, and Isaiah Thomas's swift dispatching of them, for example), but I think they don't understand that in today's world, people just want to see the best players.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Jimgolf
There are fans that would root for players of there own background, whether ethnic or geographic, but very few under 30 who see things simply in such black and white terms. The younger fans don't remember any other situation and are just watching the game. In this respect we have something to learn from them.

Come to my local Barbershop on the Southside of Chicago, you might change your mind. Not to say that things are not different, but there are still conversations about race and many other aspects of society. Race still matters in this country, it just is not about segregation anymore.

Peace

[Mark Padgett]

I probably come from a more ethnically diverse neighborhood than most of you (notice - I did not say "all" so let's not have a pissing contest) having grown up on the south side of Chicago. When I was a kid (before dirt was discovered), I played baseball, basketball and football with virtually every kind of kid ever invented. We didn't care what color, religion or ancestry a kid was - he could either hit or he couldn't - he could either catch or he couldn't - he could either shoot or he couldn't.

I've tried to live my life by those same principles. People are individuals. They're either good or bad or somewhere in between. I consider everyone to be good unless or until they demonstrate to me that they are otherwise.

I hope I've taught my kids to feel the same way.

Someday, the genome project will finish proving conclusively that there's no such thing as "race" as we think of it anyway - only similarity of genetic tagging. Then maybe we can put all this bull behind us and get on with making this world a better place for everyone.

Sorry, I had to get serious for a moment because this is the subject (discrimination of any kind) I feel strongest about.

And no - I'm not running for office. I'm just trying to change the world, one bigot at a time.

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by Mark Padgett
I probably come from a more ethnically diverse neighborhood than most of you (notice - I did not say "all" so let's not have a pissing contest) having grown up on the south side of Chicago. When I was a kid (before dirt was discovered), I played baseball, basketball and football with virtually every kind of kid ever invented. We didn't care what color, religion or ancestry a kid was - he could either hit or he couldn't - he could either catch or he couldn't - he could either shoot or he couldn't.

I've tried to live my life by those same principles. People are individuals. They're either good or bad or somewhere in between. I consider everyone to be good unless or until they demonstrate to me that they are otherwise.

I hope I've taught my kids to feel the same way.

Someday, the genome project will finish proving conclusively that there's no such thing as "race" as we think of it anyway - only similarity of genetic tagging. Then maybe we can put all this bull behind us and get on with making this world a better place for everyone.

Sorry, I had to get serious for a moment because this is the subject (discrimination of any kind) I feel strongest about.

And no - I'm not running for office. I'm just trying to change the world, one bigot at a time.

Mark, I don't care what they say about you (that Juulie keeps telling me what a big jerk you are), you're all right.

I guess our experiences are along the same lines, having both grown up in the parts of the big city the tourists avoid. So I suppose you're not including the french in this group hug. Right?

[rainmaker]

Originally posted by Dan_ref
Mark, I don't care what they say about you (that Juulie keeps telling me what a big jerk you are), you're all right.

Reminds me of a greeting card I saw:

(Front) Everyone says you act crazy, but I stuck up for you, I said,

(inside) "Hey, that's no act!"