Intentional Foul to Stop Clock

[Peter Devana]

Hi Everyone,
We have been told that all officials must call the intentional foul anytime the defence does'nt make a legitimate attempt to play the ball- every one accepts this; however, there are still many out there at even the highest levels who in big games bail out on this call and call the 1+1 commen foul. What are your thoughts on this and how are your association's handling it - right now it looks pretty inconsistent all over the world and really creates confusion to the coaches, players and fans. If we all were strong and called it right the problem would go away!

[NBA2003]

In our association I've found that officials will call the obvious. If the defensive player is not playing the ball it is an intentional foul. The only reason, I can think of that an official would not make this call is because they don't feel confident that the defensive player is not trying to play the ball. But if the official knows the rule I would think they would make the right call because knowing the rule gives confidence. As the calling official, you know you made the right call. Regardless of the crowd's reaction, regardless of the team or coach's reaction, as an official you know you made the right call. After all is said and done, anyone looking at the game on tape and looking at a rule book will understand the call.

[Paul LeBoutillier]

Originally posted by Peter Devana
If we all were strong and called it right the problem would go away!

Maybe. Last year I had a situation where a team committed an obvious foul to stop the clock at the end of a game, and when I went to the table and signaled that it was Intentional I thought the coach was going to blow up, but he ended up yelling at the player, not me. I appreciated the fact that he at least recognized the validity of my call and the obvious intent of the foul.

The NF encouages us to have the guts to make this call, regardless of the time frame in the game, and coaches need to spend time training players how to strategically foul in such a way that the clock stops and they don't get the Intentional call. (See Points of Emphasis #5)

[Indy_Ref]

Originally posted by Paul LeBoutillier

Maybe. Last year I had a situation where a team committed an obvious foul to stop the clock at the end of a game, and when I went to the table and signaled that it was Intentional I thought the coach was going to blow up, but he ended up yelling at the player, not me. I appreciated the fact that he at least recognized the validity of my call and the obvious intent of the foul.

The NF encouages us to have the guts to make this call, regardless of the time frame in the game, and coaches need to spend time training players how to strategically foul in such a way that the clock stops and they don't get the Intentional call. (See Points of Emphasis #5)

I have called only one this year. Not because I don't have the guts...I just try to tell the players to "...make a play on the ball". I NEVER want to be the difference in a close game...unless the players leave me NO other choice. I tend to give the benefit of the doubt. However, I'm less lenient during blowouts.

[Hawks Coach]

Got one this weekend. 15 seconds left, need a three to tie, 2 guard hot but can't get free despite screens, turns over ball. Tries to foul while stealing ball, other player made great crossover move and was blowing by him. He only got the off arm and got a decent hook of it to make sure he got call. He didn't do the reach around grab that I see so often, with on 50% of those getting the intentional. Got rung up for one anyway. Difference in this case is 1-1 vs 2, and obviously the ball.

I was disappointed with the call, but there's not much I could say - it was intentional and he was nailed for it. Told the team after the game that we'll probably get away with that foul 3/4 of the time, and we had no choice but to try it. If they get past our guard, the game is over. Player nailed both free throws anyway, so it probably didn't matter which way it was called in the end.

[mick]

Originally posted by Peter Devana
Hi Everyone,
We have been told that all officials must call the intentional foul anytime the defence does'nt make a legitimate attempt to play the ball- every one accepts this; however, there are still many out there at even the highest levels who in big games bail out on this call and call the 1+1 commen foul. What are your thoughts on this and how are your association's handling it - right now it looks pretty inconsistent all over the world and really creates confusion to the coaches, players and fans. If we all were strong and called it right the problem would go away!

Pistol,
Called one last night in an 8th grade game with the Visiting Coach yelling "Foul, foul, foul!"
After the game, the Home JV Coach came into our locker room and asked about the call. I told him that I woulda passed on the intentional if the coach was not yellin'. And then I said to the JV coach, "That's the same call I made on you... 4 games ago." His reply was, "Oh, yeah, that was you!"
Gotta love it.
mick

[Indy_Ref]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by mick

Originally posted by Peter Devana
Pistol,
Called one last night in an 8th grade game with the Visiting Coach yelling "Foul, foul, foul!"
After the game, the Home JV Coach came into our locker room and asked about the call. I told him that I woulda passed on the intentional if the coach was not yellin'. And then I said to the JV coach, "That's the same call I made on you... 4 games ago." His reply was, "Oh, yeah, that was you!"
Gotta love it.
mick

Mick,

Would you have made that same intentional call if it were a varsity game with the same scenario? How about a state tournament game?

Just curious.

[Indy_Ref]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
Got one this weekend. 15 seconds left, need a three to tie, 2 guard hot but can't get free despite screens, turns over ball. Tries to foul while stealing ball, other player made great crossover move and was blowing by him. He only got the off arm and got a decent hook of it to make sure he got call. He didn't do the reach around grab that I see so often, with on 50% of those getting the intentional. Got rung up for one anyway. Difference in this case is 1-1 vs 2, and obviously the ball.

I was disappointed with the call, but there's not much I could say - it was intentional and he was nailed for it. Told the team after the game that we'll probably get away with that foul 3/4 of the time, and we had no choice but to try it. If they get past our guard, the game is over. Player nailed both free throws anyway, so it probably didn't matter which way it was called in the end.

Coach, in all honesty, I would NOT have called an intentional...at least if the play happened exactly the way you described it.

[Peter Devana]

I like your consistency Mick and I hope your anwer to Indy is yes and I wonder how he would call it in the State final with the home team behind? Just curious.

[Indy_Ref]

Originally posted by Peter Devana
...I wonder how he would call it in the State final with the home team behind? Just curious.

I'd call it just like I would during the regular season, common foul...that is, as long as it happened just as Coach described!

[mick]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Indy_Ref

Originally posted by mick

Mick,

Would you have made that same intentional call if it were a varsity game with the same scenario? How about a state tournament game?

Just curious.

Casey,
I've only been to the first round (Districts).
That's my call. ... and I'm stickin' to it.
We are fortunate/unfortunate that our state officials demand calls from the book.
It actually makes it easier where I'm blowin' a call, because I don't have to wonder, or wander.
mick

Oh, duh! Were you talking about the call in Hawks game?
I pass on the intentional.

[Edited by mick on Jan 9th, 2001 at 03:28 PM]

[Peter Devana]

I Agree Indy, in the case the coach described I too would have called the commen foul as the player was making an attempt to steal(or play) the ball.
What bothers me is the inconsistency I see when there is no attempt to play the ball and the strong officials call the Intentional and the others on the same play call the commen
We have to educate the coaches , players and fans on this call by being consistent in every game regardless of the situation. If we all do this the players will adjust and those wrap- around fouls will go away.

[Hawks Coach]

Although my guard started with the intent of going for ball (I knew what he was doing as soon as he moved), he came nowhere near the ball because of a great move by B. He ended up only being able to hack B's off arm and stop his forward progress with a fairly late defensive move. To complicate, my guard is small and B much larger, so he didn't have the reach to get across B's body in any way and get near to the ball - it was all left arm hook with the ball on a RH dribble.

Again, I have seen many of these, and I bet its over 75% in my favor in this situation (and we'll probably be cursed by having someone get away with this against us, law of averages being what it is!). But in reality, it was intentional and all parties knew it, intentionals are a POE (I think) so some refs will be looking for a reason to call them at end of games, so there's not much you can say. I guess that my point is that with the emphasis on the intentionals, we are going to see a lot more quicker whistles that are justified by letter of the law but not giving the beneit of doubt that has been the practice in the past.

Better coach would have had a better play with more 3 point options, which we are putting in this week. We have a good play which my returning players know, but I couldn't call it because we hadn't worked it in practice yet - that's my bad. Also, a better team wouldn't have turned the ball over, and quicker defender would have stopped B's move.

[Edited by Hawks Coach on Jan 9th, 2001 at 04:30 PM]

[mick]

Originally posted by Hawks Coach
Although my guard started with the intent of going for ball (I knew what he was doing as soon as he moved), he came nowhere near the ball because of a great move by B. He ended up only being able to hack B's off arm and stop his forward progress with a fairly late defensive move. To complicate, my guard is small and B much larger, so he didn't have the reach to get across B's body in any way and get near to the ball - it was all left arm hook with the ball on a RH dribble.

Again, I have seen many of these, and I bet its over 75% in my favor in this situation (and we'll probably be cursed by having someone get away with this against us, law of averages being what it is!). But in reality, it was intentional and all parties knew it, intentionals are a POE (I think) so some refs will be looking for a reason to call them at end of games, so there's not much you can say. I guess that my point is that with the emphasis on the intentionals, we are going to see a lot more quicker whistles that are justified by letter of the law but not giving the beneit of doubt that has been the practice in the past.

Better coach would have had a better play with more 3 point options, which we are putting in this week. We have a good play which my returning players know, but I couldn't call it because we hadn't worked it in practice yet - that's my bad. Also, a better team wouldn't have turned the ball over, and quicker defender would have stopped B's move.

[Edited by Hawks Coach on Jan 9th, 2001 at 04:30 PM]

Coach,
Of course it was intentional! Everyone in the gym knew it. Heck, I saw it from U.P. here!
But, if the player makes a play "at the ball" even though he had "Do not Whiff" in mind, yes, you will get that call, and I bet, more than 90% of the time.
mick

[Peter Devana]

Hey Guys,I think we have found another honest Coach !!!