In light of the discussion about a recent NBA game in which an official checked on Shaq's foul total, I thought I should share this.

In the large HS (1000+ enrollment) championship game of this past weekends AAU tournament, I had an unusual situation. For the first time in my officiating career I had to undisqualify a player. It was a bit odd to explain to the coaches as both teams were from Utah and with both officials being from Nevada we had no previous relationship. They were quite pleasant about it, though.

The details of the situation:
1. close game the whole way, eventually decided by 2 in OT.
2. Blue #5 is a 6-6 250lb. center. He has two personal fouls and technical in the first half. I even peek in the book at halftime to see who is in foul trouble, so I know he has 3 fouls. Foul total at the half: Blue 12, White 3. Complaining about this is why Blue #5 received his T from my partner.
3. Blue #45, the other post player, has one personal foul in the first half and then picks up three more in about 1 minute during the 3rd quarter. His coach takes him out. I am quite aware that he has 4 fouls.
4. With 3:35 remaining in the 4th Q, Blue #5 makes an obvious foul 80 ft from the basket after White grabs a defensive rebound.
5. The scorer and timer are two JV players from the local HS who have done a great job all weekend. They now inform my partner and I that this foul is Blue #5's fifth.
6. Since my partner called the foul, I get to tell the coach. He and his player both insist that the kid has only 4 (three personal and one technical). The coach is very polite in his disagreement. I know that I have not called a foul on B5 this half, so I go and ask my partner if he remembers calling one besides the current foul. He says that he might have, but doesn't remember.
7. I return and tell the coach, "Coach, I need sub, please."
8. I am a bit perplexed, as I cannot recall his fourth foul, but we get the game going again, and the big guy sits until Blue #45 fouls with 1:33 remaining and the score 63-61 in favor of White.
9. I am 100% sure that this is his fifth. But no indication of this comes from the table, so, during the first free throw, I check with the table and they hold up 4 fingers. I look at my partner and mouth, "That's what happened." I had instantly remembered that both B5 and B45 were in the area when my partner whistled B45 for his fourth and knew that it had been incorrectly recorded as B5. My partner tends to report rather quickly and table likely just missed him first showing 4 fingers.
10. Before the second attempt, I hit the whistle and get together with my partner in the lane and tell him, "You know, we should fix this." He agrees and I head over the the table.
11. I motion both coaches over and inform them that I have definite knowledge that this was Blue #45's fifth foul. Blue coach says, "Come on, you can't foul him out, too!" At this point I let him know the good news that #5 was going to be allowed back in the game. He became much happier and agreed that I was right. I told him sorry about the two minutes that he had to sit, but this is the best I can do to make it right. Lastly, I directly told the coach of White, who had been present and listening to the entire explanation, "You know this is the right thing to do," to which he merely nodded.
12. White missed both FTs on #45's fifth foul, Blue came down got the ball to #5 and he scored to tie the game. Then both teams traded baskets and missed attempts in the final seconds to send us to OT at 65-65. I was glad because the impact of the two minutes the big guy had to sit out due to our "officiating" mistake was greatly mitigated by the additional four minutes of playing time.
13. Blue #5 played the final 5:33 without fouling and when White's desperation heave from 60 ft only hit the backboard as time expired they had won 69-67.
14. Total fouls for the game: White 14, Blue 23.

The sportsmanship and class of both teams and coaches was evident (I envy the Utah officials for this quality play and behavior that they get to see. And perhaps they deserve some credit for it, too.) as they (and even a few parents!) came over to tell us we did a good job after the game. I don't think that would have happened if we had not corrected the situation with Blue #5, no matter who won.
The bottom line is that:
Even though there were a few tough calls in the game and Blue's supporters voiced their displeasure in the first half with the foul count, what they remembered at the end of the game was that we corrected our mistake and had tried to be fair. We came out looking good after a tough game.

In closing, I'll just say that despite having heard many opinions to the contrary, I normally do try to be aware of how many fouls key players have, and in this case it helped us to "get it right." So while it is not really our job, it certainly can help the game to know.

[Edited by Nevadaref on Jun 4th, 2004 at 05:10 AM]

I ran out of juice right here. Hey DeNucci, could you condense and summarize this for us. :D

Great story,

However......................no I'm just kidding :D, you handled the situation very well. I think this is a great example of why you should know the foul situations. If your an official that goes by the philosophy "I'm not going to know the foul count" then this would not have been fixed. The more information we know pertaining to the game, the more prepared we are to handle situations like this!

Lemme try.

B45 actually had 6 fouls(4 original + one charged wrongly to B5 when B5 was fouled out + the one with 1:33 remaining). B5 actually had 3 fouls. And according to line#5 above, somewhere along the line a numberless B player committed a foul that was wrongly charged to B5 as B5's FOURTH foul- making B45's actual fifth foul go into the book as B5's fifth foul instead of a 4th foul. And I can't see where the "definite knowledge" part at the end assigned this particular foul to another B player other than B5. Maybe Nevada can enlighten us as to which B player other than #5 or #45 committed the foul that was recorded wrongly in the book as B5's fourth. This foul had to go to somebody on the B team or the whole "definite knowledge" part goes out the window.

What teams were they? Do you know the names? I am from Utah and am curious...

:D

You got farther than I did!

Lemme try.

B45 actually had 6 fouls(4 original + one charged wrongly to B5 when B5 was fouled out + the one with 1:33 remaining). [/B][/QUOTE]

It wasn't "charged" wrongly, it was recorded in the book wrongly. #45 should have fouled out rather than #5. That's also the explanation of the "definite knowledge." Boy, I don't get to correct you very often. Guess I'm not as obsequious and sycophantic as some folks think.

1st Half - B5 has 3, B45 has 1
3rd Quarter - 3 quick fouls given to B45
3:35 left in 4th B5 Commits Foul - Score sheet says it is his 5th - Have a seat
1:33 left in 4th B45 Commits Foul - Score sheet says it is his 4th - Uh... wait a minute that isn't right.

Ref makes correction allowing B5 to play and making B45 have a seat. Fouls are B5 - 4, B45 - 5

All in all... excellent knowledge and correction of the situation.

...please to insert left bearing assembly (A5) onto corresponding mating bracket housing (D8) same time while taking grasp left side wheel mount subassembly (A4) simultaneously turn screw (B3) clockwise until tight (models 3714, 3715 and 6792 only see insert for model 8912 except in Europe).

Note1 overtighten screw (B3) resulting plastic flange end cap (C37) to crack which will void your warranty.

Note2 undertighten screw (B3) resulting unsafe operatng condition for the rider, a conditon the manufacturer is not liable for.

Step 2...

Yup. Now what B player actually committed the FOURTH foul that was charged to B5 in the score book before the 5th foul that was charged at 3:35??? :confused: That 4th foul HAS to be given to the proper B player if you're gonna use "definite knowlege". For instance, if you now take that 4th. foul in the book away from B5 and give it to B45, then that 4th foul charged to B5 now becomes B45's 5th foul, and the 5th foul charged to B5 at 3:35 left is actually B45's SIXTH foul if you change it. That also means that the the foul to B45 with 1:33 left would now be B45's SEVENTH foul!!!

There was an extra foul charged to B5- his 4th one in the book- that has NOT been properly charged to any other B player when the changes were made.

Note1 overtighten screw (B3) resulting plastic flange end cap (C37) to crack which will void your warranty.

Note2 undertighten screw (B3) resulting unsafe operatng condition for the rider, a conditon the manufacturer is not liable for.


[/B][/QUOTE]Step2: Screw you.

It wasn't "charged" wrongly, it was recorded in the book wrongly. #45 should have fouled out rather than #5. That's also the explanation of the "definite knowledge." Boy, I don't get to correct you very often. Guess I'm not as obsequious and sycophantic as some folks think.
[/B][/QUOTE]B5 actually committed 3 fouls to this point according to Nevada. B5's disqualifying 5th foul with 3:35 left should have been charged to B45. Obviously, the FOURTH foul charged to B5 in the book was wrongfully charged somewhere along the line. From Nevada's description, can you tell me what B player actually should have been charged with B5's fourth foul instead of B5?

Iow, the scorer made TWO mistakes that had to be corrected: (1) charging B5 with a 4th foul somewhere along the line that B5 did not commit (2) wrongfully charging B5 with a foul that was actually committed by B45 with 3:35 to go, and thus disqualifying B5 with 5 fouls. Were BOTH mistakes corrected? Or just one?

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Jun 3rd, 2004 at 10:46 AM]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by rainmaker

Quote:

Boy, I don't get to correct you very often. Guess I'm not as obsequious and sycophantic as some folks think.

Ok, so my grasp of vocabulary isn't as extensive. But correct me if I am wrong here; isn't this a little redundant?

Sidebar: Can something be a little redundant?

Step2: Screw you. [/B][/QUOTE]

Awww..that wasn't nice

http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/sem/sad.jpg

BTW, the AAU I work gives 6 fouls before a disqual.

1st Half - B5 has 3, B45 has 1
3rd Quarter - 3 quick fouls given to B45 <b><Font color=red>At this point the original error occurs: Sheet reads B5 - 4, B45 - 3</font></b>
3:35 left in 4th B5 Commits Foul - Score sheet says it is his 5th - Have a seat <B><Font color=red>Sheet reads B5 - 5, B45 - 3</font></B>
1:33 left in 4th B45 Commits Foul Table says it is his 4th <B><Font color=red>Sheet reads B5 - 5, B45 - 4</font></B>

At this point: B5 has one too many fouls and B45 is missing one foul.

Nevadaref shifted one foul from B5 to B45 - Giving B5 4 fouls (allowing him to play again), and giving B45 5 fouls giving him a seat.

There are no other mysterious fouls (on any other players) that creep into the equation.

After the correction the Score sheet reads
<b>B5 - 4
B45 - 5</b>

Thanks for doing this, cingram. I didn't want to go back and find all the quotes in the original description. Nevada must be closer to Ohio than I remember from hs geography!

If Mr. and Mrs. Redundant had a baby, the baby would be "a little Redundant."

[QUOTE]Originally posted by footlocker

Quote:

Originally posted by rainmaker Quote: Boy, I don't get to correct you very often. Guess I'm not as obsequious and sycophantic as some folks think. Ok, so my grasp of vocabulary isn't as extensive. But correct me if I am wrong here; isn't this a little redundant?

If you want the whole nine-episode saga of The Apple-Polishing Referees, you'll have to e-mail me. I'm not gonna put it up for the whole world to see!

Oh but I disagree! :)

A foul can be incorrectly "charged" to a player in 2 different ways.

1- The official can report the wrong number.

2- The scorer can record the foul incorrectly.

And there's nothing redundant about that. :D

I lied! :D

Didn't want to hurt his feelings.

1) 1st Half - B5 has 3, B45 has 1
3rd Quarter - 3 quick fouls given to B45 <b><Font color=red>At this point the original error occurs: Sheet reads B5 - 4, B45 - 3</font></b>


2) 3:35 left in 4th B5 Commits Foul - Score sheet says it is his 5th - Have a seat <B><Font color=red>Sheet reads B5 - 5, B45 - 3</font></B>


3) 1:33 left in 4th B45 Commits Foul Table says it is his 4th <B><Font color=red>Sheet reads B5 - 5, B45 - 4</font></B>



[/B][/QUOTE]How do you figure all this out? It's completely different than what Nevada posted!

1)When the 3 quick fouls were given to B45, B45 now has 4 fouls and B5 has 3 fouls. Nevada pointed out that he knew this for a fact in points #2 and #3 in his original post above. There's nothing posted that really says that he knows what was actually in the score book at this time. Nobody knows.

2)The scorebook did say that this foul at 3:35 is now B5's fifth foul. Now you tell me where B5's FOURTH foul in the score book came from? It's not in any of the posts above.

3)When B45 committed the foul with 1:33 left, and the table told him that it was B45's fourth foul, Nevada knew that this was wrong--BECAUSE HE KNEW THAT B45 HAD COMMITTED 4 FOULS BEFORE THE FOUL THAT OCCURED AT 3:35- READ POINT #3 IN HIS ORIGINAL POST! Nevada had exact knowledge that B45 had committed 5 fouls for sure, and he also thought that the foul charged to B5 at 3:35 should have been charged to B45 instead. If Nevada now changes the foul at 3:35 from B5 to B45, that means that Nevada had actual knowledge that B45 committed SIX fouls- The four fouls before the foul at 3:35, the foul at 3:35 and the foul at 1:33. This still doesn't explain how B5 got wrongfully charged with a FOURTH foul somewhere along the line, or who actually committed this foul.

What if they had twins?

Then they'd have TWO babies! :rolleyes:

Ahhh...I'm starting to see the pattern here...so if they had triplets they would have...uhmmmm...wait wait, don't help me....

How do you figure all this out? It's completely different than what Nevada posted!

1)When the 3 quick fouls were given to B45, B45 now has 4 fouls and B5 has 3 fouls. Nevada pointed out that he knew this for a fact in points #2 and #3 in his original post above. There's nothing posted that really says that he knows what was actually in the score book at this time. Nobody knows.

2)The scorebook did say that this foul at 3:35 is now B5's fifth foul. Now you tell me where B5's FOURTH foul in the score book came from? It's not in any of the posts above.

3)When B45 committed the foul with 1:33 left, and the table told him that it was B45's fourth foul, Nevada knew that this was wrong--BECAUSE HE KNEW THAT B45 HAD COMMITTED 4 FOULS BEFORE THE FOUL THAT OCCURED AT 3:35- READ POINT #3 IN HIS ORIGINAL POST! Nevada had exact knowledge that B45 had committed 5 fouls for sure, and he also thought that the foul charged to B5 at 3:35 should have been charged to B45 instead. If Nevada now changes the foul at 3:35 from B5 to B45, that means that Nevada had actual knowledge that B45 committed SIX fouls- The four fouls before the foul at 3:35, the foul at 3:35 and the foul at 1:33. This still doesn't explain how B5 got wrongfully charged with a FOURTH foul somewhere along the line, or who actually committed this foul. [/B][/QUOTE]

The numbers were deduced from information given.

At 1:33 left in the Game B45 receives a foul. Both Refs know this is #5. Table says it is #4. (point #9)
Right now what we know is B5 has 5 (fouled out at 3:35) and B45 has 4 (all according to the book). Both refs believe it is supposed to be B45 - 5, B5 - 4.

So this means that at 3:35 when B5 committed his 5th (according to the book) the fouls for the players was B5 - 5, B45 - 3. (point #4+5)

We also knew at halftime that B5 had 3 and B45 had 1. (point #2+3)

So in the first minute of the 3rd Quarter when B45 was accessed with 3 quick fouls (point #3) - One of his fouls must have mistakingly been given to B5.

Point #4 states that the foul at 3:35 was obvious and it was given to B5 (the coaches don't (and Nevadaref doesn't) disagree)

Only one foul was erroneously given (in the book) to B5 - This happened sometime in the 1st minute of the 3rd quarter. When he fouled at the 3:35 mark the coaches said it should have been 4 fouls - 3 plus the T. (point #6)

He only moves one foul over from B5 to B45 - It wasn't his last foul (at 3:35 that he contends, it was the 4th foul that he moved). This gives B45 - 5 fouls (see ya later) and B5 - 4 fouls (welcome back). Never once in his post does he contend that the foul at 3:35 was NOT B5's.

In point #9 he mentions that "I had instantly remembered that both B5 and B45 were in the area when my partner whistled B45 for his fourth and knew that it had been incorrectly recorded as B5. My partner tends to report rather quickly and table likely just missed him first showing 4 fingers." - This would be where he believes the error occurred.

Logic problems... fun.

It's almost as "fun" as the bathtubs with two faucets and three drains, and the trains that meet in tunnels at different speeds!

It would be a little too redundant!

The numbers were deduced from information given.

At 1:33 left in the Game B45 receives a foul. Both Refs know this is #5. Table says it is #4. (point #9)
Right now what we know is B5 has 5 (fouled out at 3:35) and B45 has 4 (all according to the book). Both refs believe it is supposed to be B45 - 5, B5 - 4.

So this means that at 3:35 when B5 committed his 5th (according to the book) the fouls for the players was B5 - 5, B45 - 3. (point #4+5)

We also knew at halftime that B5 had 3 and B45 had 1. (point #2+3)

So in the first minute of the 3rd Quarter when B45 was accessed with 3 quick fouls (point #3) - One of his fouls must have mistakingly been given to B5.

Point #4 states that the foul at 3:35 was obvious and it was given to B5 (the coaches don't (and Nevadaref doesn't) disagree)

Only one foul was erroneously given (in the book) to B5 - This happened sometime in the 1st minute of the 3rd quarter. When he fouled at the 3:35 mark the coaches said it should have been 4 fouls - 3 plus the T. (point #6)

He only moves one foul over from B5 to B45 - It wasn't his last foul (at 3:35 that he contends, it was the 4th foul that he moved). This gives B45 - 5 fouls (see ya later) and B5 - 4 fouls (welcome back). Never once in his post does he contend that the foul at 3:35 was NOT B5's.

In point #9 he mentions that "I had instantly remembered that both B5 and B45 were in the area when my partner whistled B45 for his fourth and knew that it had been incorrectly recorded as B5. My partner tends to report rather quickly and table likely just missed him first showing 4 fingers." - This would be where he believes the error occurred.

Logic problems... fun. [/B][/QUOTE]

I feel like I have a hangover, and I haven't had any brownpops in weeks!!! Good grief...

I feel like I have a hangover, and I haven't had any brownpops in weeks!!! Good grief...

[/B][/QUOTE]Hey, I'm working on my MTD Sr.(patent pending) response.You just keep writing a whole buncha things down until everybody gets confused. Wait 'til I bring up the "cone of correctibility" next. :D

Hey, I'm working on my MTD Sr.(patent pending) response.You just keep writing a whole buncha things down until everybody gets confused. Wait 'til I bring up the "cone of correctibility" next. :D [/B][/QUOTE]

I think where you may have become confused is with point #9 "I had instantly remembered that both B5 and B45 were in the area when my partner whistled B45 for his fourth and knew that it had been incorrectly recorded as B5. My partner tends to report rather quickly and table likely just missed him first showing 4 fingers." - This is referring to the 3rd Quarter when B45 should have received his 4th, but it may have accidentally been given to B5 (giving B5 his 4th instead of B45 his 4th).

I'm really not trying to confuse everybody (sorry if I did)

Basically a short summary - 9 fouls called on B5 and B45 together
The book has B5 - 5, B45 - 4
Refs know this is incorrect and changed it to be B5 - 4, B45 - 5 (as they believed it should be).

Hope this is better :)

Hey, I'm working on my MTD Sr.(patent pending) response.You just keep writing a whole buncha things down until everybody gets confused. Wait 'til I bring up the "cone of correctibility" next. :D [/B][/QUOTE]

Or the "cone of connectibility"?

:eek:

B5 actually committed 3 fouls to this point according to Nevada. B5's disqualifying 5th foul with 3:35 left should have been charged to B45. Obviously, the FOURTH foul charged to B5 in the book was wrongfully charged somewhere along the line. From Nevada's description, can you tell me what B player actually should have been charged with B5's fourth foul instead of B5?

Iow, the scorer made TWO mistakes that had to be corrected: (1) charging B5 with a 4th foul somewhere along the line that B5 did not commit (2) wrongfully charging B5 with a foul that was actually committed by B45 with 3:35 to go, and thus disqualifying B5 with 5 fouls. Were BOTH mistakes corrected? Or just one?

[Edited by Jurassic Referee on Jun 3rd, 2004 at 10:46 AM] [/B][/QUOTE]

JR one of the 3 quick fouls #45 had in the 3rd quarter was recorded on #5.

At half #5 has 3, #45 has 1.

At the end of the third the book SHOULD read #5 THREE, #45 FOUR fouls, it does not, the book has #5 with FOUR and #45 with THREE fouls.

At 3:35 of the 4th quarter #5 fouls, and the book SHOULD have #5 with FOUR fouls and #45 with FOUR fouls, but they have #5 with FIVE and #45 with THREE.

When #45 fouls at the end of the quarter it should be his FIFTH foul, the only thing we don't know was which of the,"Three quick fouls on #45," was wrongly recorded on #5.

JR one of the 3 quick fouls #45 had in the 3rd quarter was recorded on #5.

At half #5 has 3, #45 has 1.

At the end of the third the book SHOULD read #5 THREE, #45 FOUR fouls, it does not, the book has #5 with FOUR and #45 with THREE fouls.

At 3:35 of the 4th quarter #5 fouls, and the book SHOULD have #5 with FOUR fouls and #45 with FOUR fouls, but they have #5 with FIVE and #45 with THREE.

When #45 fouls at the end of the quarter it should be his FIFTH foul, the only thing we don't know was which of the,"Three quick fouls on #45," was wrongly recorded on #5.
[/B][/QUOTE]That actually sounds reasonable to me.

Does that mean that I have to quit arguing now though, just because I might have been wrong? I haven't even got into the "cone of correctibility" part yet.

All you need to know is that if trains meet, you have a crash!

So tell me who were the two teams?

I may know them or coaches...

That's not all you need to know in 8th grade algebra. Sheez, that stuff is killing me.... uh, I mean my son! I don't know who's gladder to see the end of the school year, him or me. Or is it "he or I"? Way too late in the school year!

Blue was Brighton and White was Bingham. I am told that Brighton is from Salt Lake and that Bingham is from South Jordan. That must be one heck of a league over there because both of these teams had strong kids that could play through contact. Bingham whipped the Northern Nevada defending regional champs by 20 on Sunday (I did that game, too.) Brighton beat two good Northern Nevada teams. In the semi-final they took out last years regular season division champions and before that they defeated a school which is moving up to the 4A for the first time after winning the 3A North 3 of the past 4 years.
The only other UT team that I saw was Olympus. They have a 6-9 kid who will play D1. They lost to Bingham in the other semi-final by 4. The Bingham kids told me that they were happy to win because Olympus (from the Salt Lake area) had beaten them twice at previous tournaments.
All three of these teams would have been a threat to win the Nevada State Title last year as Las Vegas had a down year.
I hope to see some UT teams in Vegas in July.


For the record, sorry to JR for my post being somewhat confusing. cingram deciphered it nicely. I did, in fact, believe that B45's last foul in the 3rd quarter, which was correctly reported by my partner and should have been recorded as his fourth, incorrectly went to B5 in the book. It was this foul that I changed.

We were fortunate that no player was allowed to play when he shouldn't have been in (which might have happened had B45 fouled BEFORE B5 in the 4th quarter) and that B5 only had to sit 2 minutes before B45 fouled causing me to understand the error.
If B45 had fouled later in the game, the time B5 missed would have been greater and probably would have had an impact on the outcome; and if B45 hadn't fouled at all for the rest of the game, I certainly would not have caught the mistake and B5 would have finished the game on the bench. Looking back, it could have been much worse.

I worked an AAU tournament recently that used an NCAA scorebook that had space for the scorer to record the time of each foul. This book had other nice "improvements" that certainly made it better for game management when problems arose.

JR
since we already use the cone for measures of hypothetical verticality, I think we need more a cube of correctability, which has not yet been defined. Therefore, you could define it to include correcting your previously and potentially eroneous calculations of foul counts. Of course, I am not an engineer, so I am not sure about the proper procedure for correcting calculations. Plus, I thought the horse was dead at least three times over before you noted the error, so it may not be within the quadrilateral boundary established by the vertical cube.

Coach, just a few points to clear some matters up:
1) We have also used the cone for measurements of hpothetical horizontality also.
2) I have already used the "cone of "correctibility" to delete the word "potentially" above, and accuratize the phrase used to "previously erroneous calculations of foul counts".
3) Just as an aside, and fyi, did you know that the same person who wrote "The Erroneous Zone" also wrote the "Kama Sutra"? Dr Ruth.
4) I are an engineer.
5) A horse is a horse, of course, of course!
6) A quadrilateral boundary encompasses four times as much area as a unilateral boundary, and is also highly recommended by the United Nations. Iow, it will cover up FOUR times as many vertical cubes.
7) You can pick your friends. You can also pick your nose. You can't wipe your friends on your shirt sleeve though. I think.

Just a question, tell me how bad I'm from 1-10 if I cannot remember what number I was call on the fouling player

I mean the previous one

NevREf..

Yes Bingham is from Souh Jordan (actually just under 4 miles from my house) They have always had a solid team. Brighton is the high school that was rivals with the one I attended and the past few years have been pretty strong. (Salt lake County)

Both Bingham and Brigton played in a Region that included the other high schools from the district. It is a good league. They are both 5A schools. Olympus is a 4A school and has had a good program as well.

However just to give you an idea None of the teams you mentioned won the state championship- In fact the finals did not include anyone from their regions...

When I see the coaches I will let them know!

You is? I didn't know that You can tune a piano but you can't tuna fish.

JR at work!
http://Ricks.trainpage.com/trains/Train%60211.JPG

Yup.

Took me a few games to get used to all the 'extras' I had to put in, but they've helped me out on many an occasion.

Kelvin,
Do you know the enrollment numbers for 4A and 5A over there? Here 3A is 400-1199 and 4A is 1200+. 4A is currently the largest classification that we have. The largest schools up north are about 2200, while Vegas has a few that have 3500 students. There is some talk of Vegas making a 5A league, which I assume will be schools with 2500+.
After Bingham beat the defending Northern Regional champs (Reed HS) the local coach commented to another official friend of mine, "They were men and we were boys." You can pass that along to him as well, if you wish.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nevadaref
[B][QUOTE]Originally posted by Kelvin green

Quote:

Originally posted by Nevadaref Quote: Originally posted by Kelvin green NevREf.. After Bingham beat the defending Northern Regional champs (Reed HS) the local coach commented to another official friend of mine, "They were men and we were boys." You can pass that along to him as well, if you wish.

Nevada, they were men and we were boys - come on, what does that mean? Kenny Anderson, now in NBA, played for my alma marta in HS (Molloy) as a 14 year old freshman. There wasn't a man in NYC that could stay with that 14 year old boy!

Quote:

Originally posted by Nevadaref Kelvin, Do you know the enrollment numbers for 4A and 5A over there? Here 3A is 400-1199 and 4A is 1200+. 4A is currently the largest classification that we have. The largest schools up north are about 2200, while Vegas has a few that have 3500 students. There is some talk of Vegas making a 5A league, which I assume will be schools with

In Utah

1A= 149 kids in the school and below ( 35 schools like that ranging from 12 to 152-- Can you imagine being in the school that has 12?

2A=150 to 449 (18 schools)

3A=450-1199 24 schools ( I see in our new alignments there will be one school with 130 kids in 3A due to location?)

4A=1200-1499 22 schools

5A=1500 and above (25 schools there are a couple of exceptions that have just under 1500)

It gives us 19 leagues or regions- Due to geographics and alignments varsity referees from Salt Lake will either ref or travel to ref in 14 or 15 of these.