What would you do?

[Dan_ref]

Originally posted by JRutledge

I am very serious. They get paid the same as I do. They got the game the same way I recieved the game. It is not my job to make calls or decisions for my partners. If they have made a decision, they have to live with it. Because if I do exactly what you suggest, how many other calls is the coach going to start asking me about? I have no problem with how you choose to handle it. But if it is me, I am not saying anything.

Getting it right is not the most important "thang" when an official has made a complete judgment call. I am sorry, but we are just going to have to agree to disagree on this one.

Peace

Coupla things then I'll just shut up:

You mention the coach wanting you to change a call. I'm not sure where the coach comes into this discussion. He does not.

Maybe it's a regional thing, but where I am getting it right is the most important thing. Frankly, if we were working this game & you let me mess up this badly I would be pissed at you.

[tomegun]

The T waving off the shot may or may not be a mistake. He might not have saw the shot and he might not have had any buisness looking at the shot anyway. I think what JRUT is trying to say is, if we are going to constantly question calls our partners make then it can take away from our trust, crew concept, flow and authority. If we are honest then we would realize that this happens all the time. If someone had a game where they didn't at least raise an eyebrow due to a call by one of their partners then that is good. Not impossible but good. So, do we question every call they make?

We might not have enough information from the original post to picture this play but there are many reasons why we should leave this alone. Like JRUT said, the other official is getting paid too. He/she must be responsible to some extent and live or die with their calls. It seems like the official was sure enough about the call to wave the basket off. There have been times when I have made a similar call and looked to my partners for help with the shot. There have also been times where a play occured and although my whistle was late/slow I was sure about the call I made and where the ball was at the time the foul/violation occured.

I have heard some of the same things as JRUT was told from other D1 officials. If multiple men/women doing major college basketball say the same thing I would start to listen.


IMO

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Dan_ref

Coupla things then I'll just shut up:

You mention the coach wanting you to change a call. I'm not sure where the coach comes into this discussion. He does not.

He will if you come over and tell the calling official that he did not see what he actually called. How are you going to justify a comment to a coach when you say, "coach, he was in a good position to make a call," when you tell the calling official he did not see what he saw (in this specific situation)?

Originally posted by Dan_ref
Maybe it's a regional thing, but where I am getting it right is the most important thing. Frankly, if we were working this game & you let me mess up this badly I would be pissed at you.

Well maybe you got the "getting it right" thang from me. Sorry if that confused the situation.

But if you were to come and tell me what I just called and what I just signaled as "not obvious" to you. I would be the one that would not only be pissed at you, I might do what I could to make sure we do not work together. So it cuts both ways. Because I am not waving off a basket, because I am unclear what just happen. But that is me.

Peace

[ChuckElias]

I had this exact thing happen to me at camp a couple summers ago. Dan was at this camp with me but was not the other official involved in the play.

I was Trail official. A1 shot the ball from about the FT line. Just as A1 releases the ball, Lead official whistles a foul underneath and comes out strongly waving off the basket. Ball goes in. I am 100% sure that the shot was released (forget about whatever crap you've heard about 110% sure).

He starts toward the "table" (cutting through the lane, but that's another issue ) but I intercept him after he takes about 3 steps.

I said, "Ask yourself if the ball was in the air before the foul". He immediately realized that it was and gave a "good hoop" signal.

Now, a couple things about the sitch: I should've selected my words better. I should've just told him that I was sure the ball was in the air. I was trying not to paint him into a corner, but instead it could've been interpreted as condescending, which was not what I intended.

Secondly: if he'd said to me, "It was definitely before the shot", I don't think I would have argued with him. Like Rut, I'm not going to get into a debate. I gave my info and he has to live and die with it. I might have asked our Center official if he had a good look, but I wouldn't have gone through a long discussion. Fortunately, he realized immediately that it should've been a good hoop.

[Jimgolf]

Originally posted by JRutledge
But the bottom line here, the official made a ruling. It is not your job to question his/her rulings on judgment calls. That does not matter if that is 2 Person or 3 Person.

Peace

I agree. I was wondering more if the ref should have waved off the shot if the shot was from outside his primary area of the court. This seemed to me to be similar to making a call in someone else's area. I was wondering if this is considered stepping on the other ref's toes or was considered standard operating procedure in 3 person.

[JRutledge]

Originally posted by Jimgolf


I agree. I was wondering more if the ref should have waved off the shot if the shot was from outside his primary area of the court. This seemed to me to be similar to making a call in someone else's area. I was wondering if this is considered stepping on the other ref's toes or was considered standard operating procedure in 3 person.

There is not rule that says you cannot know what is happening with the ball outside of your area. Most of the time the ball is going to tell you what is going on, off ball. Yes, if a calling official knows the status of the ball, he or she should indicate it when they make a call. I know I do.

Peace