Double Dribble call at end of Pistons-Pacers game

[Jimgolf]

Did anyone see Chauncey Billups' fake double dribble at the end of last night's Pistons-Pacers game (player passes off hand over dribbling hand without touching ball - looks like he's picking the dribble up)? He did it so well, the player in front of him jumped up to block the pass, and the referee behind him actually called a double dribble.

Talk about outsmarting yourself.

[lrpalmer3]

Let's say he did double dribble (thanks Rick) ...

I wonder if the ref would call it if the defender didn't fall for the fake? No disadvantage, right? Is that why NBA refs make the big bucks?

[Edited by lrpalmer3 on May 25th, 2004 at 03:22 PM]

But it wasn't a double dribble right?

[Robmoz]

No double dribble there! ESPN actually had a great second camera angle that clearly showed there was NO violation. That ref made a terrible call due to being out of position.

Now what I would like to know is could this have been a correctable error and if one of the other refs had the guts to confer with his partner could the call been rescinded (I realize that it probably would never happen but is it even feasible to consider as an option?)???

If not, it should be correctable because right after that call, I believe Indiana scored four unanswered points, making the game a lot closer then it probably should have been.

[lrpalmer3]

"correctable error" seems like the wrong term. Maybe just an overturned call.

Another official once incorrectly called a double dribble in my primary. After all 10 players, the bench personnel, the scorer, the fans, and even the bball looked at him funny, guess what he did? He asked me (from all the way across the court) if it was a double dribble.

Suggestions? Then I'll tell you what I did (which by no means is the "correct" way).

[Adam]

Good grief.

No, it's not "correctable." If one of the other refs saw something different, all he can do is approach the calling official and say what he saw. If the calling official wants to stick with his call, he can do so since he cannot be overruled. If he wants to change, he may do so.
Sounds like this play was awful close, and there's little chance an official is going to stick his nose into a close call like this; especially on a dribbling violation.

Chances are the other refs were doing their jobs and weren't watching the ball.

Nothing like a great camera angle to make fans think they're referees.

[dhodges007]

Yeah, they can correct that. Also when your partner goes and calls a foul that was perfectly clean... go tell him he missed that and call it an inadvertant whistle!

These guys (NBA refs) get so much grief over one call, and a violation at that, that it makes ESPN. Not one of us would do any better and we are picking on him and suggesting his partners come over and tell him he is wrong. Seriously! These guys are the best trained officials in the country and we think they should overturn a violation call.

I agree with Snaq... GOOD GRIEF!

[Edited by dhodges007 on May 25th, 2004 at 04:18 PM]

[cford]

Originally posted by Snaqwells

Chances are the other refs were doing their jobs and weren't watching the ball.

Nothing like a great camera angle to make fans think they're referees.

It was a great camera angle, not b/c you could see that he didn't double-dribble but b/c you could see the postion of the trail. He was completely straight-lined behind Chauncy.

I thought it was a good example of why you should not make a call if you are not in position and do not see it clearly. I was pretty suprised that he called it due to the traveling violations that happen every other play in the NBA.

That being said this is an NBA Official that is working a Conference Final so let me finish by saying that the official that was there for Prince's block was in perfect position and made a great no-call. The commentators had one thing right, they kept saying "This is a very hard game to officiate" I will second that notion!

[dhodges007]

Originally posted by lrpalmer3
"correctable error" seems like the wrong term. Maybe just an overturned call.

Another official once incorrectly called a double dribble in my primary. After all 10 players, the bench personnel, the scorer, the fans, and even the bball looked at him funny, guess what he did? He asked me (from all the way across the court) if it was a double dribble.

Suggestions? Then I'll tell you what I did (which by no means is the "correct" way).

It would be a really long half time in the locker room if my partner did that in a game... I hope my response would be, that was close... dd "B" ball on the sideline. And play on. I am not sure how to not embarrass your crew anymore than it already is at this point.

What did you do and what level were you working?

[cford]

I agree with you dhodges007 that these are some of the best officials in the world and not one of us could hold their jock-strap or the female version (help me out Juulie ). But I do try and learn from situations that occur in these games, not by seeing how things are handled with NBA rules but by thinking about how I would handle it using NFHS rules. I thought this was a good learning example of why you should only call it if you see it, no matter how much the home fans or couch-potatoes don't like the no call.

[Jimgolf]

Originally posted by cford

I thought it was a good example of why you should not make a call if you are not in position and do not see it clearly. I was pretty suprised that he called it due to the traveling violations that happen every other play in the NBA.

I kinda thought it was a great example of why players shouldn't try to get too fancy. I've seen many players pull this move in street ball, but almost every time it's done in an official game it's been called a double dribble. And while the NBA does have a different definition of traveling than the rest of the world, they are pretty quick to call other violations correctly.

Maybe the pros should stop watching the And 1 Tour dvds.

[cford]

Originally posted by lrpalmer3
[BHe asked me (from all the way across the court) if it was a double dribble.

Suggestions? Then I'll tell you what I did (which by no means is the "correct" way).
[/B]

I would point at the scorer and tell him to lace up his shoes because there is about to be a substitution

[dhodges007]

Originally posted by cford
I agree with you dhodges007 that these are some of the best officials in the world and not one of us could hold their jock-strap or the female version (help me out Juulie ). But I do try and learn from situations that occur in these games, not by seeing how things are handled with NBA rules but by thinking about how I would handle it using NFHS rules. I thought this was a good learning example of why you should only call it if you see it, no matter how much the home fans or couch-potatoes don't like the no call.

I agree that we can learn from this situation.

Originally posted by Snaqwells
Good grief.

No, it's not "correctable." If one of the other refs saw something different, all he can do is approach the calling official and say what he saw. If the calling official wants to stick with his call, he can do so since he cannot be overruled. If he wants to change, he may do so.
Sounds like this play was awful close, and there's little chance an official is going to stick his nose into a close call like this; especially on a dribbling violation.

Chances are the other refs were doing their jobs and weren't watching the ball.

Nothing like a great camera angle to make fans think they're referees.

I agree their the best at what they do, but that BLOWN call almost cost the Pistons the game. Lets say it did cost them the game, would you keep your same position. I know refs are human, and everyone makes mistakes, but when they make a mistake, anyone can point it out. Whats the difference between a ref making a mistake and a player/coach making a mistake? So because he is an offical, we can't critize him? It was obvious that it wasn't a double dribble (although from where he was he may not have seen it).